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Volker, I see the usefulness of the IACP submission as follows:<br>
<br>
The police chiefs, as an interest group, are submitting their views
based on their experience as LEAs using public data, and using legal
means to access gated data. <br>
They have views, based on their experience and wishes, about what
data they would like to see collected, for either public or gated
access. <br>
Their viewpoint is useful in that it may produce insights or raise
issues that the pdp-wg would not have come across on its own.<br>
The more of these concerned interest groups the pdp-wg hears from,
the more informed will be its deliberations. <br>
Our task is to assess the message, not the messenger. <br>
<br>
Sam L. <br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/6/2017 7:30 AM, Volker Greimann
wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:08f71eb5-2f22-9de5-0f9a-0a1476b489bb@key-systems.net"
type="cite">
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<p>Agreed, but we still need to understand their role and position
when we look at their statement.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 03.03.2017 um 17:24 schrieb
Michele Neylon - Blacknight:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Agree
with John.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">They’re
simply stating their opinion as a collective. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mr
Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blacknight
Solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hosting,
Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://blacknight.blog/">http://blacknight.blog/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Intl.
+353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Direct
Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Personal
blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://michele.blog/">https://michele.blog/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Some
thoughts: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://ceo.hosting/">https://ceo.hosting/</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blacknight
Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93
X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org></a>
on behalf of John Horton <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com"><john.horton@legitscript.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03<br>
<b>To: </b>Chuck Gomes <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com"><cgomes@verisign.com></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
enforcement association resolution regarding domain
registration data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:#444444">Maxim, if it
helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP
periodically over the years myself), I think the point
of the document was to represent their stakeholders'
viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the
IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is
a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access
purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how
I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more
efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as
opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+
members separately submit a letter to this group.)
Just my two cents. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:#073763">John Horton<br>
President and
CEO,
LegitScript</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" id="_x0000_i1025"
src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ"
height="36"
width="96"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p
style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p
style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#444444">Follow</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0B5394"> </span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Legit</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0B5394">Script</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank"><span
style="color:#CC0000">LinkedIn</span></a> | <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" target="_blank"><span
style="color:#6AA84F">Facebook</span></a>
| <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" target="_blank"><span
style="color:#674EA7">Twitter</span></a>
| <u><span
style="color:#FF9900"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://blog.legitscript.com"
target="_blank">Blog</a></span></u>
|<span
style="color:#FF9900">
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts"
target="_blank">Google+</a></span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p
style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p
style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#FF9900"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
id="_x0000_i1026"
src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"
height="96"
border="0"
width="46"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" id="_x0000_i1027"
src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ"
height="96"
border="0"
width="47"></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM,
Gomes, Chuck <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">Maxim,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">It is important that we openly
accept input from all stakeholders including
professionals from specific fields. We will
have to decide what groups should be given
access to what data elements that are not
publicly disclosed. Let’s not get ahead of
ourselves. In the case of law enforcement, we
will need to work with them in this regard
including with this association if they are
willing to do so.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">INTA is an association; I am sure
you would not suggest that we discount their
views.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">The concerns you raise will need to
be considered in light of the bigger picture
involving all stakeholders.</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">Chuck</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="m_3697773863298110808__MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US"> </span></a><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Maxim Alzoba<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
enforcement association resolution
regarding domain registration data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">Hello All, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> I think we might consider
this set of items only as an opinion of
professionals in the field of Law
Enforcement. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">Granting access to data to
members of the association is <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">highly questionable, given
the non-official status of the
participants.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">As I understand members of
association do not act on behalf of their
LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are
working in the field of Law Enforcement
(and from legal perspective it is
important).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> Unfortunately, due to a mix
of different legislations in the system of
ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> (issues start when they are
not in the same jurisdiction)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">we might face situation where
the information, intended for lawful
purposes of a LEA of a particular
jurisdiction must reach <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">the local LEA of a Registry
(for example), so the only current way is
Interpol.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">The local LEA has powers
granted by local laws, so it is already
fixed and is not in our remit.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">So the requests from LEA
should go directly , and not via
associations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">One of the reasons - is
identification of the requestor, is should
be done in case of disclosure of sensitive
information.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">P.s: granting requested
access would be equal to free not
authorised access to RDS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">The same we see now in CZDS
(anyone can pretend to be a student and
request zone files).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;color:black" lang="EN-US">Sincerely Yours,<br>
<br>
Maxim Alzoba<br>
Special projects manager,<br>
International Relations
Department,<br>
FAITID<br>
<br>
m. <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80"
target="_blank">+7 916
6761580</a></span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;color:black" lang="EN-US">skype oldfrogger</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;color:black" lang="EN-US">Current UTC
offset: +3.00 (Moscow)</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">On Mar 3, 2017, at
16:07, Sam Lanfranco <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sam@lanfranco.net"
target="_blank">sam@lanfranco.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">Within the terrain of
the Internet ecosystem the
International Association of
Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the
simplest terms, yet another
constituency group, not formally
attached to ICANN, with an
interest in a particular part of
the DNS system, that being access
to information that assists them
in their work. There is however a
slight difference in that their
members are within law enforcement
agencies (LEAs) with legal means
to access DNS data. I would
suggest that both of those points
be kept in mind as the PDP moves
forward with RDS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">I would take them to
be saying two things, again in
simple terms. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"> <span lang="EN-US">First,
please collect some data that
would be particularly useful to
us in our necessary work in the
public interest.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"> <span lang="EN-US">Second
(our task here) what of that
data should be publicly
available, and what of that data
should be gated and accessible
through the normal LEA request
channels. <o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">Is there more to it
than that?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">On 3/2/2017 7:54
PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span lang="EN-US">I didn't discount their opinion. I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting. That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">From: Kiran Malancharuvil [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com" target="_blank">mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">To: Gomes, Chuck <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank"><cgomes@verisign.com></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com" target="_blank">m.alzoba@gmail.com</a>; <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Why are their opinions being discounted then?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Kiran Malancharuvil<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Policy Counselor<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">MarkMonitor<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28415%29%20419-9138" target="_blank">415-419-9138</a> (m)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span lang="EN-US">On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank"><cgomes@verisign.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members. I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">From: Kiran Malancharuvil [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com" target="_blank">mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">To: Maxim Alzoba <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com" target="_blank"><m.alzoba@gmail.com></a>; Gomes, Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank"><cgomes@verisign.com></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Hi Chuck,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Am I missing something? Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Kiran<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">[<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">To: Gomes, Chuck <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank"><cgomes@verisign.com></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">association resolution regarding domain registration data<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Hello Chuck,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">with all due respect,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">(it is not an IGO).<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Sincerely Yours,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Maxim Alzoba<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Special projects manager,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">International Relations Department,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">FAITID<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">m. <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80" target="_blank">+7 916 6761580</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">skype oldfrogger<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span lang="EN-US">On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank"><cgomes@verisign.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span lang="EN-US">On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gca@icginc.com" target="_blank"><gca@icginc.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Founded in 1893, the IACP (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.iacp.org/" target="_blank">http://www.iacp.org</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.iacp.org/" target="_blank"><http://www.iacp.org></a>) is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies. "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales. It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">The document is attached, and also at:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions" target="_blank">http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">materials. (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Communications and Technology Committee<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">CTC.06.t16<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">conducting multiagency international investigations, including<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span lang="EN-US">**********************************<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Greg Aaron<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Vice-President, Product Management<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">iThreat Cyber Group / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://cybertoolbelt.com/" target="_blank">http://Cybertoolbelt.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">mobile: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28215%29%20858-2257" target="_blank">+1.215.858.2257</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">**********************************<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"><2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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</blockquote>
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lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">in an unjust state" -Confucius<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">邦有道，</span><span style="font-family:SimSun">贫</span><span style="font-family:Calibri">且</span><span style="font-family:SimSun">贱</span><span style="font-family:Calibri">焉，耻也。邦无道，富且</span><span style="font-family:SimSun">贵</span><span style="font-family:Calibri">焉，耻也</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca" target="_blank">Lanfran@Yorku.ca</a> Skype: slanfranco<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Phone: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28613%29%20476-0429" target="_blank">+1 613-476-0429</a> cell: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28416%29%20816-2852" target="_blank">+1 416-816-2852</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
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href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
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_______________________________________________<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
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Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca">Lanfran@Yorku.ca</a> Skype: slanfranco
blog: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com">https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com</a>
Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852</pre>
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