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    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CACLR7wKirBWU45T_r+i37ytbBEbo8OZU7oKfV3RXnt4DQUQDoQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Whois is the rope with which bad actors hang themselves.</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Maybe dumb bad actors. Savvy bad actors just populate whois with
    data of unknowing third parties, thereby rendering any verification
    and validation instruments useless and inconveniencing the affected
    data subjects as well. <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CACLR7wKirBWU45T_r+i37ytbBEbo8OZU7oKfV3RXnt4DQUQDoQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>For every piece of data that is already gathered under the
          most comprehensive WHOIS regime, there is a strong industry
          backed argument that the data needs to continue being
          collected, and for it to remain available. <br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Which industry? Not the domain industry. And when it comes to
    collection and handling of private data, our purposes for it is all
    that matters legally unless there is a requirement by law to collect
    and store.But in that case, compliance with local law would be the
    acceptable purpose.<br>
    <br>
    To drive the point home: the purposes of third parties, including
    law enforcement have no relevance to the legal requirements for the
    collection and handling of private data. None whatsoever!<br>
    <br>
    But we can find criminals faster with it! - No legal relevance.<br>
    But we want to contact infringers! - No legal relevance.<br>
    etc...<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CACLR7wKirBWU45T_r+i37ytbBEbo8OZU7oKfV3RXnt4DQUQDoQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>So fully standardizing this will probably force some
          registrars to collect and share far more data than they
          currently do, and it's unlikely to reduce the data collected
          by the ones who collect more.</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Nope, the opposite is true.<br>
    <br>
    Best,<br>
    Volker<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CACLR7wKirBWU45T_r+i37ytbBEbo8OZU7oKfV3RXnt4DQUQDoQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div><br>
        </div>
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      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:17 PM, John
          Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="auto">
              <div>Excellent suggestion.  Perhaps a future action item
                could be a survey of who various classes of stakeholders
                use RDS/whois. <br>
                <br>
                Sent from my iPhone</div>
              <div>
                <div class="h5">
                  <div><br>
                    On Mar 21, 2017, at 21:07, nathalie coupet via
                    gnso-rds-pdp-wg &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                      target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div>
                      <div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
                        Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
                        Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
                        <div
                          id="m_6118818800519014376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490101127081_525220"
                          dir="ltr">I have a hard time understanding
                          what very stakeholder wants. If every group of
                          stakeholder could write down how they see the
                          new RDS functioning, just by doing a Venn
                          diagram, we could better understand what we
                          have in common and what we need to foncus on
                          to reduce differences of opinion.</div>
                        <div
                          id="m_6118818800519014376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490101127081_525220"
                          dir="ltr">But that would require more work
                          from already busy people. I think though, it
                          could give us a more tangible view of what we
                          are up against. </div>
                        <div
                          id="m_6118818800519014376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490101127081_525220"
                          dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div
                          id="m_6118818800519014376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490101127081_525220"
                          dir="ltr">My .02 cents<br>
                        </div>
                        <div
                          id="m_6118818800519014376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490101127081_525220"
                          dir="ltr">  </div>
                        <div
                          id="m_6118818800519014376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490101127081_525218"> </div>
                        <div class="m_6118818800519014376signature"
                          id="m_6118818800519014376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490101127081_525216">Nathalie </div>
                        <div class="m_6118818800519014376qtdSeparateBR"><br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <div class="m_6118818800519014376yahoo_quoted"
                          style="display:block">
                          <div
                            style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
                            Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
                            Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
                            <div
                              style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
                              Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
                              Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
                              <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">
                                  On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 9:45 PM,
                                  Andrew Sullivan &lt;<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com"
                                    target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>&gt;
                                  wrote:<br>
                                </font></div>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              <div
                                class="m_6118818800519014376y_msg_container">On
                                Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 03:01:50PM -0500,
                                John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:<br
                                  clear="none">
                                &gt; Except that is not the only
                                approach to the problem nor the ones
                                exclusively used by DP authorities (i.e.
                                Twitter). That is why I asked the
                                question I did and why I will be
                                lobbying them directly for whois privacy
                                for free. <br clear="none">
                                &gt; <br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                But I thought the point of what we were
                                doing was to make some<br clear="none">
                                proposals for what to mask and how --
                                basically, that's what<br clear="none">
                                differential access does.  And I also
                                thought we were at the beginning<br
                                  clear="none">
                                of that effort (much as it frustrates me
                                the rate at which we move).<br
                                  clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                &gt; The question of whether fields are
                                optional or can be "masked" is
                                inherently part of this discussion. <br
                                  clear="none">
                                &gt; <br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                That's just conflating two different
                                things.  The first thing is to<br
                                  clear="none">
                                ask whether something should be
                                collected _at all_.  Then one can ask,<br
                                  clear="none">
                                if something is collected, who may
                                obtain it and under what<br clear="none">
                                circumstances.  This latter is the
                                "masking" of which you speak.  And<br
                                  clear="none">
                                it's all implemented as it currently is
                                because whois is brain-dead.<br
                                  clear="none">
                                So let us not be restricted to the
                                functionality we can get from a<br
                                  clear="none">
                                primitive protocol that had already been
                                extended well beyond its<br clear="none">
                                design constraints more than 20 years
                                ago.<br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                &gt; To enable third-parties to
                                communicate directly to resolve and
                                troubleshoot problems. <br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                I suggest that's already there.<br
                                  clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                &gt; To enable third-parties to report
                                abuse or security incidents so they may
                                be resolved. <br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                This too.<br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                &gt; To enable users and entities to
                                have information to adjudicate an entity
                                is who they say they are (for instance
                                phishing, scams, fake news). <br
                                  clear="none">
                                &gt; <br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                I find it impossible to imagine using
                                the whois for this purpose, so<br
                                  clear="none">
                                I'd like a use description for this. 
                                Since it's not authenticated or<br
                                  clear="none">
                                authenticatable information anyway, as
                                there are no signatures and so<br
                                  clear="none">
                                on, it seems a pretty poor way to do
                                it.  This is partly included in<br
                                  clear="none">
                                the purposes however when we discuss
                                X.509 certificates.<br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                &gt; ICANN isn't just a business to
                                confer domain names. Its a
                                quasi-regulatory body over a "commons"
                                and a natural monopoly. The purposes
                                must be viewed beyond the prism of the
                                mere registrar-consumer relationship as
                                many interests are relevant and just as
                                important. <br clear="none">
                                &gt; <br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                While I strongly agree that the purposes
                                need to be rather wider than<br
                                  clear="none">
                                the domain name industry, I'm
                                uncomfortable with both of the claims of<br
                                  clear="none">
                                quasi-regulatory authority, the notion
                                of the Internet as a commons.<br
                                  clear="none">
                                The root zone is indeed a natural
                                monopoly, though.<br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                Best regards,
                                <div
                                  class="m_6118818800519014376yqt3699957111"
                                  id="m_6118818800519014376yqtfd28570"><br
                                    clear="none">
                                  <br clear="none">
                                  A<br clear="none">
                                  <br clear="none">
                                  -- <br clear="none">
                                  Andrew Sullivan<br clear="none">
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true" shape="rect"
                                    href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com"
                                    target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><br
                                    clear="none">
                                  ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br
                                    clear="none">
                                  gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br
                                    clear="none">
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true" shape="rect"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br
                                    clear="none">
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true" shape="rect"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
                                    target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br
                                    clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br>
                      <span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</span><br>
                      <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                          target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br>
                      <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
                          target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
            gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
              rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        <div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________<br>
          Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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--------------------------------------------

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Best regards,

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- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>

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V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

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