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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext">> Registrar Registration Expiration Date: [field is blank, as it is irrelevant and the Registry Expiry Date is to be relied upon]<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext">We’ve strayed from the original discussion of “authoritative”, but I do want to respond to the comment enclosed in brackets above.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext">In this specific case the “Registrar Registration Expiration Date” field is blank because it doesn’t have a value assigned by the registrar, not because it’s irrelevant.
Here’s one concrete example where a registrar might want to provide a value for this field:<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext">There is a registrar today who offers a 100 year domain registration service*. If someone signs up for this service, the registrar can register and renew a domain
with the registry for no more than 10 years at a time. If the registrar is so inclined to push the information to the registry, and if the registry supports it (the operator of .org apparently does), it is possible to display both the 100 year expiration date
and the registry’s 10-years-or-less expiration date in the registry’s WHOIS service.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext">I’m not a fan of seeing this type of information in a registry’s RDDS. It’s confusing to data consumers (witness this email thread), and it’s a prime example of the
type of information that is better published by the registrar entity that is responsible for producing and managing it.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext">Scott<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:windowtext">* https://www.networksolutions.com/domain-name-registration/popup-100-yr-term.jsp<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:olive"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> Greg Aaron [mailto:gca@icginc.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 4:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hollenbeck, Scott <shollenbeck@verisign.com>; 'stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca' <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca>; 'gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org' <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Proposed Definition/Background for Authoritative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Thanks, Scott. So a system where all registries allow thick records, but some domain records are thin and some are thick, basically depending upon where the registrar is? Or where the registrant is? Or
both? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">All best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">--Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#333333">Domain Name: PIR.ORG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#333333">Registry Domain ID: D96207-LROR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#333333">Registrar WHOIS Server: [field is blank, because the registry is the authoritative source of data, and the registrar does not serve WHOIS data itself for domains in
this thick TLD]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#333333">Registrar URL:
<a href="http://www.godaddy.com">http://www.godaddy.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#333333">Updated Date: 2017-02-20T01:51:21Z<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#333333">Creation Date: 1996-02-18T05:00:00Z<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#333333">Registry Expiry Date: 2018-02-19T05:00:00Z<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#333333">Registrar Registration Expiration Date: [field is blank, as it is irrelevant and the Registry Expiry Date is to be relied upon]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> Hollenbeck, Scott [<a href="mailto:shollenbeck@verisign.com">mailto:shollenbeck@verisign.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 5, 2017 2:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com">gca@icginc.com</a>>; 'stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca' <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>>; 'gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org' <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Proposed Definition/Background for Authoritative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#003300">Points below as appropriate (from my perspective).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#003300"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#003300">Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#003300"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> Greg Aaron [</span><a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com">mailto:gca@icginc.com</a><span style="color:windowtext">]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hollenbeck, Scott <</span><a href="mailto:shollenbeck@verisign.com">shollenbeck@verisign.com</a><span style="color:windowtext">>; 'stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca' <</span><a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a><span style="color:windowtext">>;
'gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org' <</span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><span style="color:windowtext">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Proposed Definition/Background for Authoritative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Dear Scott:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">My point was: where was the EWG’s RDDS going to get data? From the registries, not directly from registrars.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#003300">[SAH] …and validators (see page 112 of the final report for a figure of the model), but yes, you’re correct about registrar data flowing through the registry. However, see page 115 where it’s noted that
“To maintain redundant systems and eliminate the single point of failure, the data must reside at multiple locations (i.e., Validator, Registrar, Registry, Escrow Provider, and RDS Provider)”. Anyway…</span></i></b><span style="color:#003300"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">The “Registrar Registration Expiration Date” field is mention is relevant to just the three thin gTLD registries (.COM, .NET, .JOBS) -- the thin model that’s going away (and has been for years). In the other
1,200+ gTLD registries, the expiration date is not provisioned by registrars, it’s generated by the registries (as you know).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#003300">[SAH] Not quite. The “Registrar Registration Expiration Date” is also published by thick registries. You can see an example (that happens to be blank) by doing a WHOIS query for a thick registry .info domain
like “pir.info”. This is not the same thing as the registry-produced expiration date!</span></i></b><span style="color:#003300"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">So anyway, you’re advocating that in the future, contact data should remain at registrars and never go to registries, and that ICANN should send all gTLDs to the thin model? After the community decided to
go to an all-thick model in 2013, and Verisign just recently agreed to the thick implementation plan for .COM and .NET?</span><span style="color:#003300"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#003300">[SAH] No, that’s not what I’m suggesting. I’m suggesting that there will be situations in which some registrars will push data to registries in much the same way the thick model works today, and other registrars
will not be able to do so completely due to a need to comply with local laws or regulations. We may ultimately need to consider how an RDDS works when some data must remain with the registrar.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">To better understand, I would like your views on these questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:windowtext;margin-left:.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
How the thin registry model is required under privacy law.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#003300">[SAH] It’s not.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:windowtext;margin-left:.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
An issue is personal data crossing from (being collected from) one jurisdiction to another. Under the evolving privacy laws you are concerned about, won’t a registrar sometimes be barred from accepting domain registrations from registrants outside its jurisdiction?
For example, how could GoDaddy, a U.S. registrar, accept registrations (and the accompanying contact data) from registrants in Europe? Could GoDaddy serve that contact data via an RDS under any circumstances?
<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#003300">[SAH] Being barred may well be the case unless the registrar sets up shop in Europe and is willing to comply with the requirements for doing so.</span></i></b><span style="color:#003300"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="3" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:windowtext;margin-left:.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
What has changed in privacy law recently that overrides the considerations of privacy law that the EWG and the Thick PDP WG made?
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#003300">[SAH] One example: </span>
</i></b><a href="http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-17-15_en.htm">http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-17-15_en.htm</a><b><i><span style="color:#003300"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#003300"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#003300">There’s also an existing ICANN process for dealing with conflicts that acknowledges that exceptions may be made:<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#003300"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-law">https://whois.icann.org/en/icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-privacy-law</a><span style="color:#003300"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">All best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:5.25pt"><span style="color:windowtext">--Greg</span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#003300">[SAH] Likewise!</span></i></b><span style="color:#003300"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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