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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">For those who were unable to participate in this WG meeting, I strongly encourage you to listen to the recording. We didn’t reach any tentative conclusions but I believe that
the discussion illustrated the diverse issues that we need to address and hopefully showed our intent to try to find solutions to address all legitimate ones even when they may be in conflict.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nathalie Peregrine<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 19, 2017 3:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> gnso-secs@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Mp3, AC Recording, AC Chat & Attendance for Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call on Wednesday, 19 April 2017<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group
call held on Wednesday, 19 April 2017 at 05:00 UTC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height:15.6pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">MP3: <a href="http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-19apr17-en.mp3">http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-19apr17-en.mp3</a> <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p style="line-height:15.6pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">AC recording:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a href="https://participate.icann.org/p6e1urc6y3e/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=adafe81581d64faa1c522c7df75a296bd1944eab0fa9de6de3c681a267bc868e">
<b>https://participate.icann.org/p6e1urc6y3e/</b></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DwMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=GJMkY4Fbi9sry9Z53DaSWJm-mHxMfFxg7MEVDf2JU90&s=FI3QJYH6DWWCDQir6NDMSjPkzdqfTTUmf9Ua-AYpc14&e="><span style="color:purple">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Mailing list archives:<a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/"><span style="color:purple">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Wiki page: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/CcPRAw">https://community.icann.org/x/CcPRAw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Nathalie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">———————————————<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG Wednesday, 19 April 2017</span></u></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the GNSO Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group call on Wednesday 19 April 2017<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nathalie Peregrine:Meeting page: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_C8PRAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=KoCEuw64tqi1FHTYtTr4Y6Xa5Sl_gtTToIyqtY_XyQc&s=634WCVY8ddPbY75-HNHJ2S-t2BoAJN6GBLtKLnCuPMs&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_C8PRAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=KoCEuw64tqi1FHTYtTr4Y6Xa5Sl_gtTToIyqtY_XyQc&s=634WCVY8ddPbY75-HNHJ2S-t2BoAJN6GBLtKLnCuPMs&e=</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Chuck Gomes:Hello<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:hi chuck and everyone....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I am on the bridge, hear you well<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Will use audio only from 5.30 ro 6.10 then back to Adobe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nathalie Peregrine:Thanks for this information, we will know not to dial you back when we see your line drop<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Chris Pelling:Good morning all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> David Cake:Hi Chuck and others<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:Well its morning, good can be discussed ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tim O'Brien:+1 Benny<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Link to poll results: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_64078603_AnnotatedResultsV2-2DPoll-2Dfrom-2D11AprilCall.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=KoCEuw64tqi1FHTYtTr4Y6Xa5Sl_gtTToIyqtY_XyQc&s=r84GA9FdYymRhevcHn_XrZd2RW7RSjRujgsTY04GJ58&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_64078603_AnnotatedResultsV2-2DPoll-2Dfrom-2D11AprilCall.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=KoCEuw64tqi1FHTYtTr4Y6Xa5Sl_gtTToIyqtY_XyQc&s=r84GA9FdYymRhevcHn_XrZd2RW7RSjRujgsTY04GJ58&e=</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Mute your microphone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Starting with Q4 on pages 7-9<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Refer to summary of key concepts identified in poll responses on bottom of page 9 (last page)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tim O'Brien:agree with A, I do this on a regular basis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Possible key concept: a) Allowing people to get in touch with a domain name holder is a legitimate purpose<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alan Greenberg:Sorry to be late.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:No it 's not a website owner, its a domain owner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:different<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Chris Pelling:Gone quiet steph<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Chris Pelling:thats better<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:ok now I am hearing nothing.....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Chris Pelling:all quiet ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Does the domain name owner want to be contacted for reasons outside of nis contract with Registrar (if no breach of laws detected) - it is the question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:+1 maxim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Chris Pelling:+1 maxim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:agree with Stephanie that there are nuances to the ability to contact a domain owner that may be lost with this kind of description for purpose<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:legitimate purpose need to be defined then<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:in what circumstances<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:is it legitimate purpose<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:And the issue of why you need to contact the person is key.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 Jim, there might be no need for direct contact ..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:@maxim, there might be times when contacting the domain owner is in their interest, but not something they may have explicitly allowed. for example their site has
been hacked.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:If you want to purchase my domain name, that is not a sufficient reason....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tim O'Brien:+1 Kal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Kal, agree, I just do not think there is a need in a direct contact, relayed info is as good as direct<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tim O'Brien:Disagree Maxim - most times the communications are not passed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:some domain owners may in fact want to hear offer from 3rd parties who which to purchase the domain...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:@maxim and Stephanie, I think that shows why we need a more nuanced purpose than simply contacting a domain owner.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):It is up to a Registrarnt oh whose services to use , for example cell phones provided do not work few hours a day for most people<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:How does one guarantee that it is passed on?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:And why would one want the intermediary to see the communication? That seems like a privacy issue.......<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:@Kal yes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:2:55<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Possible key concept: b) Proportionality needs be assess in relation to each data user<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Sam Lanfranco:There needs to be clarity about what is meant by "get in touch with" => a valid place to send a query but not necessarily know who or where<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:@greg, the forwarding could be mechanical. it is no more or less reliable than any messaging provider.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:We're starting out with key concepts, which are by definition high level. They can all be subject to the death of a thousand cuts of "nuance."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):assessment for every uses seems to be non realistic idea ... no automated processing then<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*user<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:Kal, I don't think that happens regularly now. I have the sense it does not. Would intermediaries commit to a system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:@greg, I think we are afraid of the impact of an overly simplified purpose. how useful would such a purpose be for a deliberations if it give us no effective guidance?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Possible alternative: b) Proportionality needs be assess in relation to each data element and user?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):be back to keyboard in 35 min, will stay on cellphone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Possible key concept: c) ICANN needs to distinguish between individual person and legal person registration data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 for "personal data"/"not" flag in RDS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:Kal, if that's the case, all of these one line answers will be too simple. Is this entire process a rabbit hole, then?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tim O'Brien:distinugishing could help in profiling threat actors - but how would this be verified? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):even in legal body fields some non well educated person can use his own phone and address .. so it might be more about setting flags for other fields
too <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Possible alternative: c) ICANN needs to distinguish between individual person and legal person registration data, as required by applicable law?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:or "where required by applicable law"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I think it is more about - does this thing content personal info/not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:Greg, I think we have to find some way of making our purposes useful for adjudicating solutions later. we can't yet judge if we are wasting time or not. no reason
to give up, but it is reason to work towards specificity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:@Jim, terminology is often natural person, distinct from legal person (corporation or other legal entity)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):division between legal bodies/persons - is that legal bodies are not protected by privacy laws, but... they still can use personal info of their directors<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Jim Galvin (Afilias):@lisa - thanks for the distinction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and formally those fields will be need to protected<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Rod Rasmussen:@Jim G. One reason for knowing is whether or not a domain is being used as per requirements and in particular, if a claim of being a "natural person" with different
data protections are appropriate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Jim Galvin (Afilias):@rod - so, what we're saying is we need to know if the domain name holder is a "natural person" or not on collection of the data so that the publication
can be properly processed. this does not mean that whether or not it is a natural person should be a published data element, does it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 Stehane<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Stephanie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:Every high level concept, including rights to privacy, will be too nuanced if we take that approach. We might as well go to sleep, in that case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:Hot button it was, indeed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:some PPSAI providers to also....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Rod Rasmussen:@Jim - that sounds like a legal question to me - from a technical perspective, that data element determines whether or not you display certain data (or even
collect it) but the "flag" itself is not necessary to publish. However, I would argue from "usabilty" perspective, it would be best to publish it or you'll create more questions than you'll answer by hiding it. There may be separate legal requirements on
publishing this data element. I do believe some of the ccTLD's do publish that flag if I remember correctly. Good question for that subteam.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:do also<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Note that distinguishing between natural and legal persons does not require that distinction to be used in particular ways in policy - it simply allows policy
to treat NPs and LPs differently (for example, to comply with applicable laws that apply only to NPs)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="IT" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Alex Deacon:+1 Lisa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Susan Kawaguchi:+ 1 Lisa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="IT" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Fabricio Vayra:+1 Lisa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:If memory serves me, the EWG approach was to allow LPs to identify they are LPs, to allow NPs to identify they are NPs, and to treat registrants as NPs if no
indication is given when the DN is registered<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:That seems to match my recollection, Lisa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:the distinction is important when applying data protection laws...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Rod Rasmussen:@Jim :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Fabricio Vayra:+1Alex<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:NO one is trying to prevent a corporation from identifying itself as the owner of an asset, but the situation is more nuanced for those who are not large
corporations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:@stephanie - is there a grey area between natural personals and legal persons? I didn't think so...but your comment above indicates there may be....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:A legal person is a legal person. I don't see how size matters.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:there is a flow on effect if we choose to have the collection of the distinction. if it becomes a purpose of the RDS, then it may be subject to any accuracy/validation
policies we come up with. And that could only be acheived via PII collection. so unless you decide that the distinction between NP and LP is important, but the accuracy of such an ascertion is irrelevant, then there'll be some addition data validation required
in the future.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tim O'Brien:Disagree on gated access<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Possible key concept: d) There should be layered/gated access to gTLD registration data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:Where I feel there is a grey area is in where an individual, who is also the principal in a company or corporation, registers a name in his/her own name.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:And does not use it for a commercial purpose.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:Yet....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):back to Adobe, dropping the call line<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:If they are registering in their personal name, how would their association with a legal entity be known?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nathalie Peregrine:thanks Maxim.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie, Greg - I think you're pointing out there are domain names registered by proxy (for example, by an individual or third party, for use by another entity)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):if the person doing something liiegal due to believe to do "good thing" ... formally it is going to be illegal <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:Lisa, I did not think that was the topic here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):you need to be accredited some way with the local LEa to use some of their powers :(<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:No, Lisa, what I am talking about is a sole operator registering a name without a commercial purpose. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:+1 Rod<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie, Greg - got it, you are talking about use of domain name, not who registers it, correct?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:Stephanie, isn't that a natural person? Not sure what you mean by sole operator....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:Sort of....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:If I am acting in my own right in my own name, I am a person entitled to data protection. If I am operating as the president of a privately owned sole entrepreneur
corp, I am a business. Do I have to declare when I register a name? this is what is implied at the collection stage....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie, or do you have the ability to designate intended for commercial use (and change that over the lifetime of a DN)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Fabricio Vayra:• Article 29 WP 76 Opinion 2/2003 (<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ec.europa.eu_justice_policies_privacy_docs_wpdocs_2003_wp76-5Fen.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=KoCEuw64tqi1FHTYtTr4Y6Xa5Sl_gtTToIyqtY_XyQc&s=_LWzPuws-GOPgdKoZMSuhUz8wHNo3r5B2-xKmdQ5FGA&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ec.europa.eu_justice_policies_privacy_docs_wpdocs_2003_wp76-5Fen.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=KoCEuw64tqi1FHTYtTr4Y6Xa5Sl_gtTToIyqtY_XyQc&s=_LWzPuws-GOPgdKoZMSuhUz8wHNo3r5B2-xKmdQ5FGA&e=</a> )
o "registration of domain names by individuals raises different legal considerations than that of companies or other legal persons registering domain names" ... "the publication of certain information about the company or organisation (such as
their identification and their physical address) is often a requirement by law in the framework of the commercial or professional activities they perform"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Stephane ... the issue might arise when the person first registers a domain and only then goes into creation of own company <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Fabricio Vayra:just one example for context<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:Yes Maxim. Gets complicated if I have an idea for something, and not sure which company I might use it in when I have several.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:yes maxim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:re: solution in search of problem, the problem the DPs were identifying I think is that there should not be a requirement for all registration data to be made
public<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:Yes Lisa, the last line is the key one and brings us back to proportionality.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Possible key concept: e) There is a need to identify and document query purposes; collection/derivation only for legit purposes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Another alternative (from 19): Data should not be disseminated unless it is in line with a legitimate purpose<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Tim, I am not saying that what you do is wrong, We need to ensure , that even after some kind of protection of personal data, you ,still be able to
report breaches to the Registrant/Registrar/Registry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Jim Galvin (Afilias):@lisa - yes, let's identify the problem (not all data should be public) and then let's consider the best way to solve that problem. differentiated access
is simply one possible solution<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:gated<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:tiered, differentiated, gated.... various terms for access that is not entirely public<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Also in situation of potential LEA specail kind of access to RDS - cybersecurity companies will need to be able to report to those LEA RDS contacts <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tim O'Brien:to the uninformed, how is someones name, mailing & email address, and phone number deemed "personal information"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):so they can deal with the breach as LEAs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:Just like the phone book, it has been considered personal for some time. The fact that it is all available in the US does not nullify that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:Maxim, there's no reason for that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:@maxim - i do not agree with that comment. (i.e. cybersecurity companies need to report to LEA's)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Greg, LEAs do not have to act, they might use the qualified input<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:I'm certain LEA's would also disagree. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tim O'Brien:Disagree with Maxim as well - most LEO's do not care <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I am saying they might , not have to (both LEAs and cybersecurity companies)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tim O'Brien:nor will help unless it is a significant loss anount<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Q2 - page 2 of results displayed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:unless you meant they need to be free to report to lea should they choose to,,,,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Comment 4: Every legitimate purpose requires a domain name registration data element<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Greg - the latter - they a free to do so if they choose to do so<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:it should be noted that not all queries to the RDS are for domain names<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:host queries for example<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:got it, thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:See Lisa's comment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:"every legitimate purpose for a domain name query requires a domain name registration data element"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:registration data is our business, our only business (apologies to Gerber)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:the domain name data element is not required at all for registrar or name server queries. I think most people on this group mean domain name queries against the
RDS when they talk about querying the RDS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:Note that IP WHOIS is not within our scope - our scope is gTLD DN WHOIS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lisa Phifer:(or RDS more generically)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kal Feher:@Lisa, the the query types discussed are all available in gTLD DN Whois<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:As painful as it is I do agree with Chuck that our mutual understanding is growing as we go through this process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Rod Rasmussen:Right on Chuck!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:Let's remember that, as Buttarelli said of himself, they are members of the judiciary. Not just any old data protection experts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Greg Shatan:Regulator and judiciary. a neat trick. executioner too?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):the idea looks similar to "Judge Dredd" procedures :)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Alex Deacon:Have we asked the other participants for their answers to our questions? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Chris Pelling:thanks all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Stephanie Perrin:They are not the regulators, the European Parliament is; in the case of the existing law of course, it would have been their own parliaments....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Amr Elsadr:Thanks all. Bye.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Venkata Atluri:Good night<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Patrick Lenihan:Thanks to Each and All!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Fabricio Vayra:Byw bye<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tim OBrien:thanks all!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Fabricio Vayra:zzzzz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Rod Rasmussen:TTFN<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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