<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hello John , <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">According to current discussions (which, I am sure will be continued during the GDD Summit in Madrid, 9th-11thMay2017), </div><div class="">Registrars and Registries might not be even aware of the fact that their services were used by EU citizens (situations where the EU citizen is a resident of some non-EU country or has two passports, and one of those is EU-country passport, which was not presented at the registration stage).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The issue is, that fines under GDPR are quite hard, being a non-EU company fined by EU Court for 20M EUR of 4% of turnover for a breach is not something many of us can survive.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here arises a need to be able to mark fields of records in RDS as personal data. (to make it machine processable, and who knows, maybe even stored differently).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">P.s: we are in cross control with few Registrars, so we have some degree of understanding of these issues.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">P.P.s: also GDPR regulates profiling, so collecting some kind of information about EU citizens might fall under it (even when some non-EU company collects data about behavioural patterns of </div><div class="">not yet caught potential criminals).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Sincerely Yours,<br class=""><br class="">Maxim Alzoba<br class="">Special projects manager,<br class="">International Relations Department,<br class="">FAITID<br class=""><br class="">m. +7 916 6761580<span style="text-align: -webkit-auto;" class="">(+whatsapp)</span></div><div class="">skype oldfrogger</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Current UTC offset: +3.00 (.Moscow)</div></div></span></div></div></div></div></div>
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 27, 2017, at 15:23, John Horton <<a href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" class="">john.horton@legitscript.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)"><div class="gmail_default">Well, on that note, let me propose a solution to consider. </div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default">Volker and others have pointed out that the EU has some legal requirements pertaining to privacy. As far as I can tell, these generally don't exist elsewhere. (That's not to say "nowhere," but it's the exception, not the rule.) Let's stipulate, for the sake of argument, that registrars in those countries have to adhere to those laws. However, the purpose of privacy laws in Germany, France or Sweden are to protect the citizens of those countries -- not registrants in other countries. </div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default">As a trade-off, it seems reasonable to me to explore a solution where EU registrars agree to forego accepting domain name registrations from outside their own jurisdiction. We can then have a bi-furcated system -- this should only apply to registrants using the domain name for non-commercial reasons, by the way, since the privacy laws only apply to individuals, not corporations -- where, say, a German citizen can register with Key-Systems (for example) and enjoy whatever data protections Key-Systems feels that it needs to implement. (Volker, I'm not picking on you here, I'm just using you as an EU-based example.) It's incredibly easy to implement technically: just restrict the available countries in the drop-down menu during registration to a single country. </div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default">After all, as a US citizen, why should I -- or a Chinese citizen, or a Brazilian citizen -- have the right to avail myself of the privacy protections afforded by the German government to German citizens? Those aren't meant for me. </div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default">And, after all, why should privacy protections that apply to a minority of the world's population force a global change everywhere?</div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default">I'd be interested to hear from registrars whether, in exchange for being able to implement rigorous privacy protections for domain names used for non-commercial purposes, they would be willing to forego accepting registrations from outside of their own jurisdiction (or, perhaps, the EU). This would allow Volker and others to comply with their own laws but in a minimally disruptive way. </div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><font color="#073763" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" class="">John Horton<br class="">President and CEO, LegitScript</font><div class=""><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ" width="96" height="36" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><b class=""><font color="#444444" class="">Follow</font><font color="#0b5394" class=""> </font><font class="">Legit</font><font color="#0b5394" class="">Script</font></b>: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#cc0000" class="">LinkedIn</font></a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#6aa84f" class="">Facebook</font></a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#674ea7" class="">Twitter</font></a> | <font color="#ff9900" class=""><u class=""><a href="http://blog.legitscript.com/" target="_blank" class="">Blog</a></u></font> |<font color="#ff9900" class=""> <font style="font-weight:normal" class=""><a href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts" target="_blank" class="">Google+</a></font></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font color="#ff9900" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div style="text-align: left; margin: 0px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font color="#ff9900" class=""><img src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png" width="46" height="96" class=""><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ" width="47" height="96" class=""><br class=""></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:45 AM, Ayden Férdeline <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank" class="">icann@ferdeline.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="">re: the repeated
suggestion of “opt in registration for public WHOIS”. It bears repeating what
was said to us by the Data Protection Commissioners in Copenhagen; consent is
not a waiver for disproportionate or unlawful processing. You cannot ask a data
subject to consent to something which is unlawful. <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class=""><br class=""><br class="">Ayden Férdeline<br class=""></font></span></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class=""><div class="m_-8794609955022991530protonmail_signature_block"><div class="m_-8794609955022991530protonmail_signature_block-user"><div class=""><a title="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline" href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline" target="_blank" class="">linkedin.com/in/ferdeline</a><br class=""></div></div><div class="m_-8794609955022991530protonmail_signature_block-proton m_-8794609955022991530protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></font></span><blockquote type="cite" class="m_-8794609955022991530protonmail_quote"><span class=""><div class="">-------- Original Message --------<br class=""></div><div class="">Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data<br class=""></div></span><div class=""><div class="h5"><div class="">Local Time: 27 April 2017 12:36 PM<br class=""></div><div class="">UTC Time: 27 April 2017 11:36<br class=""></div><div class="">From: <a href="mailto:Paul@law.es" target="_blank" class="">Paul@law.es</a><br class=""></div><div class="">To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank" class="">michele@blacknight.com</a>>, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>><br class=""></div><div class="">RDS PDP WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="m_-8794609955022991530font">"</span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="" class="m_-8794609955022991530colour"><span style="font-family:-webkit-standard" class="m_-8794609955022991530font">Privacy laws in one part of the world are a factor we need to be aware of, among other factors. </span></span></span>“<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-family:-webkit-standard" class="m_-8794609955022991530font"></span></span><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(255,254,254)" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-family:-webkit-standard" class="m_-8794609955022991530font">This seems to be the entire driving force behind considering a more restrictive (gated) access to WHOIS. If there are other reasons please let me know.</span></span><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(255,254,254)" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-family:-webkit-standard" class="m_-8794609955022991530font"></span></span><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(254,253,253)" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight">Also, I have yet to see any legal authority that precludes:</span><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(254,253,253)" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"></span><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(253,252,252)" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight">Opt in registration for public WHOIS</span><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(252,251,251)" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight">For those not desiring a public WHOIS record, then the ability to use a recognized privacy service so as to “anchor" the registration of the domain</span><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(252,251,251)" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"></span><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(251,249,249)" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight">If one does exist can someone point me to the </span>link?<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A balancing of needs is important here. Seems to me that the competing interests here are not simply privacy vs. public access. There are the private interests of those who regularly use the current WHOIS data set for any variety of purposes including:<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Security research and prevention<br class=""></div><div class="">Law enforcement<br class=""></div><div class="">Highjacking recovery<br class=""></div><div class="">Private transactions (confirmation of current and historical ownership)<br class=""></div><div class="">Lending and financing transactions (confirmation of ownership to support security interests)<br class=""></div><div class="">Providing WHOIS and other data services to others<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Paul<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=""><br class=""></div><span style="" class="m_-8794609955022991530colour"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="m_-8794609955022991530font"><span style="font-size:14px" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: left; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" class=""><div class=""><b class="">From: </b> <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@<wbr class="">icann.org</a>> on behalf of Michele Blacknight <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank" class="">michele@blacknight.com</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Date: </b> Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 9:21 AM<br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">To: </b> Greg Shatan <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>, Volker Greimann <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Cc: </b> RDS PDP WG <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Subject: </b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0 0 5" class=""><div class=""><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-GB" class=""><div class="m_-8794609955022991530WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Greg</span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"> </span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">As a business owner I need to make sure that I’m not exposing myself or the company to unnecessary risk.</span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">While big corporations might be comfortable spending large amounts of money on “creative” tax arrangements that isn’t really an option for smaller
companies like ourselves.</span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"> </span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Regards</span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"><br class="">Michele</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"> </span><br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">--</span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Mr Michele Neylon</span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Blacknight Solutions</span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Hosting, Colocation & Domains</span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank" class="">https://www.blacknight.com/</a></span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)" class="m_-8794609955022991530colour">https://blacknight.blog/</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)" class="m_-8794609955022991530colour">https://ceo.hosting/</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Intl. <a href="tel:+353%2059%20918%203072" value="+353599183072" target="_blank" class="">+353 (0) 59 9183072</a></span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Direct Dial: <a href="tel:+353%2059%20918%203090" value="+353599183090" target="_blank" class="">+353 (0)59 9183090</a></span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">------------------------------<wbr class="">-</span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,</span><span lang="EN-US" class=""></span><br class=""></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"> </span><br class=""></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span class="">From: </span></b><span class=""><<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@<wbr class="">icann.org</a>> on behalf of Greg Shatan <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Date: </b>Wednesday 26 April 2017 at 23:38<br class=""><b class="">To: </b>Volker Greimann <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc: </b>RDS PDP WG <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data</span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">We also need to be very clear about the limits of the legal requirements of applicable law, and the various options available for dealing with the law. There's no need to overcomply. Indeed
it would be quite unreasonable to do so. </span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Just as paying the lowest calculable income tax is perfectly legitimate, so is complying with the law in the least disruptive way possible.</span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Greg</span><br class=""></p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><br class=""></p><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class=""><a name="m_-8794609955022991530_UNIQUE_ID_SafeHtmlFilter_UNIQUE_ID_SafeH" class=""></a><b class=""><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Greg Shatan<br class=""></span></b><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">C: <a href="tel:(917)%20816-6428" value="+19178166428" target="_blank" class="">917-816-6428</a><br class=""> S: gsshatan<br class=""> Phone-to-Skype: <a href="tel:(646)%20845-9428" value="+16468459428" target="_blank" class="">646-845-9428</a><br class=""></span><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Volker Greimann <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><p class="">I wish it were so simple. "Doing harm" is not necessary to be in violation with applicable law. Just like jaywalking, speeding on an empty road or crossing a red light carries a fine regardless of whether harm was done, privacy law too does not care about
an actual harm.<br class=""></p><p class="">We need to be very clear about the legal requirements when we define the limits of what can be done with the data we collect, and by whom.<br class=""></p><p class="">Volker<br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Am 26.04.2017 um 18:43 schrieb John Horton:<br class=""></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Greg, well said. And Tim, well said. And I'll strongly +1 Michael Hammer as well. I agree with the "do no harm" philosophy -- I'm not convinced that some of the proposed changes (e.g., those outlined in the EWG report) wouldn't cause more
harm than the existing, admittedly imperfect, system. As I've said before, the importance of tools like Reverse Whois isn't only direct -- it's derivative as well. (If you enjoy the benefits of those of us who fight payment fraud, online abuse and other sorts
of malfeasance, you have reverse Whois among other tools to thank.) Privacy laws in one part of the world are a factor we need to be aware of, among other factors. <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 9:07 AM nathalie coupet via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">+1</span></span><br class=""></p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Nathalie </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"> </span></span><br class=""></p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 12:02 PM, Victoria Sheckler <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vsheckler@riaa.com" target="_blank" class="">vsheckler@riaa.com</a>> wrote:</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">+1<br class=""><br class=""> Sent from my iPhone</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""><br class="">On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:56 AM, Greg Shatan <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">Thanks for weighing in, Tim. Since this is a multi<u class="">stakeholder</u> process, everyone is assumed to come in with a point of view, so don't be shy. At
the same time, if stakeholders cling dogmatically to their points of view the multistakeholder model doesn't work.</span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">As for being out on a limb:</span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><ul type="disc" class=""><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0cm; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span class="">We haven't decided what data will be "private" and for which registrants (e.g., based on geography or entity status)</span><br class=""></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0cm; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span class="">We haven't decided there will be "gated" access and what that might mean, both for policy and practicality</span><br class=""></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0cm; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span class="">The question shouldn't be whether we will be "allowing third parties access to harvest, repackage and republish that data," but how we should allow this in a way that balances various concerns. Eliminating reverse
Whois and other such services is not a goal of this Working Group.</span><br class=""></li></ul><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">Our job should be to provide the greatest possible access to the best possible data, consistent with minimizing risk under reasonable interpretations of
applicable law. We need to deal with existing and incoming privacy laws (and with other laws) as well, but not in a worshipful manner; instead it should be in a solution-oriented manner. This is not, after all, the Privacy Working Group. I'll +1 Michael
Hammer: </span><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Rather than starting from a model of justifying everything and anything from a privacy perspective, I would suggest that it would be much more appropriate, other than
technical changes such as moving towards using JSON, to require justification and consensus for any changes from the existing model(s) of WHOIS.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Finally, while our purpose is not to maintain anyone's economic interest, economic interests may well be aligned with policy interests.
Assuming that economic interests are at odds with policy interests is just as dangerous as assuming that policy interests are served by maximizing economic interests.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Greg</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><a name="m_-8794609955022991530_m_-6028739752990097634_m_-70575339787632" class=""></a><b class=""><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Greg Shatan<br class=""></span></b><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">C: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:(917)%20816-6428" target="_blank" class="">917-816-6428</a><br class=""> S: gsshatan<br class=""> Phone-to-Skype: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:(646)%20845-9428" target="_blank" class="">646-845-9428</a><br class=""></span><span class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:10pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a></span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Dotzero <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:dotzero@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">dotzero@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></span><br class=""></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">Adding to what Tim and Allison wrote.</span></span><br class=""></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">As a starting point, I've had an account with DomainTools in the past and will likely have one in the future, although I don't
currently have one. <br class=""><br class=""> There are other organizations and individuals which consume/aggregate whois data so I don't think that for the purposes of this discussion the focus should be on just DomainTools. I know researchers and academics who use this data to analyze all sorts of things.
As has been pointed out, there are all sorts of folks staking out positions because of their economic (and other) interests without necessarily being transparent about those interests.</span></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">It should be remembered that the Internet is an agglomeration of many networks and resources, some public and some private.
At the same time, it is simply a bunch of technical standards that people and organizations have agreed to use to interact with each other. In many cases, the ultimate solution to abuse is to drop route. To the extent that good and granular information is
not readily available, regular (innocent) users may suffer as owners and administrators of resources act to protect those resources and their legitimate users from abuse and maliciousness. The reality is that most users of the internet utilize a relatively
small subset of all the resources out there. For some, a service like Facebook IS the Internet.<br class=""><br class=""> It may also incite a tendency towards returning to a model of walled gardens. At various points I have heard discussions about the balkanization of the internet, with things like separate roots, etc. People should think very carefully about what they are asking
for because they may not be happy with it if they actually get it.</span></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">Rather than starting from a model of justifying everything and anything from a privacy perspective, I would suggest that it
would be much more appropriate, other than technical changes such as moving towards using JSON, to require justification and consensus for any changes from the existing model(s) of WHOIS.</span></span><br class=""></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">Michael Hammer</span></span><br class=""></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:27 AM, allison nixon <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></span><br class=""></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">Thank you for your email Tim.</span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">Full disclosure(because I believe in being transparent about this sort of thing), we do business with Domaintools and use their tools to consume
whois data.</span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">"i'll close by saying I think Allison's point about economic value has merit. yes, the point of the WG is not to protect anyone's economic interest.
I agree 100% with that statement and will disagree with anyone who thinks the future of DomainTools or other commercial service should have one iota of impact on this discussion."</span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">I will however disagree vehemently with you on this point. It is obvious that many of the arguments to cut off anonymous querying to WHOIS data are
economically motivated. Financial concerns are cited numerous times in approved documents. I also believe the "vetting" process is likely to become a new revenue stream for someone as well. A revenue stream with HIGHLY questionable privacy value-add.</span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">Every dollar of income for the Domaintools company and others like it come from their clients, who see a multiplier of value from it. That means
for every dollar spent on the entire whois aggregator industry means that a much larger amount of money is saved through prevented harms like fraud, abuse, and even fake medications which kill people.</span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">I think it is extremely important to identify what critical systems rely on whois (either directly or downstream), and determine if we are ready
to give up the utility of these systems.</span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">We also need to identify the value of the ability to anonymously query whois and what that loss of privacy will mean as well.
While I obviously do not make many queries anonymously(although our vendor has their own privacy policy), I understand this is important especially to those researching more dangerous actors. Why would $_COUNTRY dissidents want to query domains when their
opponents would surely be hacking into the audit logs for this?</span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">On Apr 25, 2017 11:41 PM, "Chen, Tim" <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:tim@domaintools.com" target="_blank" class="">tim@domaintools.com</a>> wrote:</span></span><br class=""></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">"And I hope more stakeholders in this multi-stakeholder process will come forward with their own perspectives, as they will differ
from mine."</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">happy to do so. DomainTools is clearly a stakeholder in this debate. and we have a fair amount of experience around the challenges,
benefits and risks of whois data aggregation at scale. </span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">from the beginning of this EWG/RDS idea we've stood down bc i didn't believe our opinion would be seen as objective-enough given
our line of business. but it is apparent to me having followed this debate for many weeks now, that this is a working group of individuals who all bring their own biases into the debate. whether they care to admit that to themselves or not. so we might
as well wade in too. bc I think our experience is very relevant to the discussion.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">i'll do my best to be as objective as I can, as a domain registrant myself and as an informed industry participant.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">since our experience is working with security minded organizations, that is the context with which I will comment. </span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">since this is an ICANN working group, I start with the ICANN mission statement around the security and stability of the DNS. I find
myself wanting to fit this debate to that as the north star. i do not see the RDS as purpose driven to fit the GDPR or any region-specific legal resolution. but I do see those as important inputs to our discussion.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">from a security perspective, my experience is that the benefits of the current Whois model, taken with this lens, far outweigh the
costs. again, I can only speak from my experience here at DomainTools, and obviously under the current Whois regime. This is not to say it cannot be improved. From a data accuracy perspective alone there is enormous room for improvement as I think we can
all agree. every day I see the tangible benefits to security interests, which for the most part are "doing good", from the work that we do. when I compare that to the complaints that we get bc "my PII is visible in your data", it's not even close by my value
barometer (which my differ from others'). this is relevant bc any future solution will be imperfect as I have mentioned before. as Allison and others point out we need to measure the harm done by any new system that may seek to solve one problem (privacy?)
and inadvertently create many more. since this group is fond of analogies I'll contribute one from the medical oath (not sure if this is just U.S.) "first, do no harm".</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">i'll close by saying I think Allison's point about economic value has merit. yes, the point of the WG is not to protect anyone's
economic interest. I agree 100% with that statement and will disagree with anyone who thinks the future of DomainTools or other commercial service should have one iota of impact on this discussion. but I also think "it's too expensive" or "it's too hard"
are weak and dangerous excuses when dealing with an issue like this which has enormous and far reaching consequences for the very mission of ICANN around the security and stability of our internet.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Tim</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:50 PM, allison nixon <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></span><br class=""></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">Thanks for the documentation in your earlier email. While I understand that's how things are supposed to work in theory, it's not implemented very
widely, and unless there is enforcement, then it's unlikely to be useful at all.</span></span><br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">"</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">as a given, we put ourselves in a certain position in terms
of the actions we can and cannot recommend. We can make similar statements focused on registry operators, registrars, or any other stakeholder in this space. If we all approach this WG's task with the goal of not changing anything, we're all just wasting our
time."</span><span class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">There are things that people would be willing to change about WHOIS. Changes purely relating to the data format would not be as controversial. Changing to that RDAP json
format would probably be an agreeable point to most here.</span><span class=""></span></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">There are two different major points of contention here. The first is the data format, second is the creation of a new monopoly and
ceding power to it. By monopoly I mean- who are the gatekeepers of "gated" access? Will it avoid all of the problems that monopolies are historically prone to? Who will pay them? It seems like a massive leap of faith to commit to this without knowing who we
are making the commitment to.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">"I do not believe it is this WG's responsibility to protect anyone's</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">commercial services if those things are basically in response to<br class=""> deficiencies in the existing Whois protocol. "</span><span class=""></span></span></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">From my understanding of past ICANN working groups, registrars have fought against issues that would have increased their costs.
And the destruction of useful WHOIS results(or becoming beholden to some new monopoly) stand to incur far more costs for far larger industries. So this shouldn't surprise you. If those economic concerns are not valid then I question why the economic concerns
of registrars are valid.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">If entire industries are built around a feature you would consider a "deficiency", then your opinion may solely be your own. And
I hope more stakeholders in this multi-stakeholder process will come forward with their own perspectives, as they will differ from mine.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">"Not trying to hamstring the WG. Just asking if this is not something that has already been solved.."</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Hi Paul,</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">It's an interesting thought. This document was recommended to me as one that was approved in the past by the working group that outlined
what the resulting system might look like. I'm still learning and reading about these working groups and what they do, and this document is massive.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/final-report-06jun14-en.pdf" target="_blank" class="">https://www.icann.org/en/syste
m/files/files/final-report-06j un14-en.pdf</a></span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">In the document, it says: <i class="">"Central to the remit of the EWG is the question of how to design a system that increases the accuracy of the data collected while also offering protections for those Registrants seeking to guard and maintain their privacy."</i></span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">One of the things I notice is that any talk about actually increasing accuracy of whois info- via enforcement- is vigorously opposed
in this group, and it's merely assumed that people will supply better quality data under the new system. </span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Throughout the document it talks about use-cases and features (whois history, reverse query, etc), which are indeed identical to
the features of the whois aggregators of current day. Such a system would replace them. Will the service quality be as good?</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">On page 63 it gets into thoughts on who would be "accredited" to access the gated whois data. Every proposed scenario seems to recognize
the resulting system will need to handle a large query volume from a large number of people, and one proposes accrediting bodies which may accredit organizations which may accredit individuals. It even proposes an abuse handling system which is also reminiscent in
structure to how abuse is handled currently in our domain name system. Many of these proposed schemes appear to mimic the ways that the hosting industry and registrar industry operate, so we can expect that the patterns of abuse will be equally frequent, especially
if higher quality data is supplied.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">The proposed scenarios all paint a picture of "gated" access with very wide gates, while simultaneously representing to domain purchasers
that their data is safe and privacy protected. And this is supposed to *reduce* the total number of privacy violations? This doesn't even appeal to me as a consumer of this data.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">Whoever sets up this system also stands to inherit a lot of money from the soon-to-be-defunct whois aggregation industry. They would
certainly win our contract, because we would have no choice. All domain reputation services, anti-spam, security research, etc, efforts will all need to pay up. </span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">After being supplied with the above document, I also saw a copy of a rebuttal written by a company that monitors abusive domains.
I strongly agree with the sentiments in this document and I do not see evidence that those concerns have received fair consideration. While I do not see this new gatekeeper as an existential threat, I do see it as a likely degradation in the utility i do see
from whois. To be clear, we do not do any business with this company.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size"><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/input-to-ewg/attachments/20130823/410038bb/LegitScriptCommentsonICANNEWGWhoisReplacementStructure-0001.pdf" target="_blank" class="">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/
input-to-ewg/attachments/20130 823/410038bb/LegitScriptCommen tsonICANNEWGWhoisReplacementSt ructure-0001.pdf</a></span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">I also found John Bambenek's point in a later thread to be interesting- concentrating WHOIS knowledge solely to one organization
allows the country it resides in to use it to support its intelligence apparatus, for example monitoring when its espionage domains are queried for, and targeting researchers that query them (since anonymous querying will be revoked). Nation states already
use domains in operations so this monopoly is a perfect strategic data reserve. The fact that this system is pushed by privacy advocates is indeed ironic.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="m_-8794609955022991530size">None of those concerns appear to have been addressed by this group in any serious capacity. Before the addition of new members, I
don't think many people had the backgrounds or skillsets to even understand why they are a concern. But I think this is a discussion worth having at this point in time for this group.</span><span class=""></span></span><br class=""></p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Andrew Sullivan <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank" class="">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>> wrote:</span></span><br class=""></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">Hi,<br class=""><br class=""> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 07:25:47PM +0200, Paul Keating wrote:<br class=""> > Andrew,<br class=""> ><br class=""> > Thank you. That was helpful.<br class=""> ><br class=""> > ""Given this registrant, what other<br class=""> > domains are registered?" is a solved problem, and has been since the<br class=""> > early 2000s.2<br class=""> ><br class=""> > This is also traceable via alternative means such as consistencies in<br class=""> > various WHOIS fields such as email, address, name, etc.<br class=""><br class=""> Well, sort of. The email, address, and name fields are _user_<br class=""> supplied. So they come from the other party to the transaction. The<br class=""> ROID is assigned by the registry itself. So once you have a match,<br class=""> you know that you are looking at the same object, only the same<br class=""> object, and all the same object(s).<br class=""><br class=""> Email addresses in particular are guaranteed unique in the world at<br class=""> any given time (though not guaranteed as unique identifiers over<br class=""> time), so they may be useful for these purposes. Take it from someone<br class=""> named "Andrew Sullivan", however, that names are pretty useless as<br class=""> context-free identifiers :)<br class=""><br class=""> > In reality finding out answers to questions such as<br class=""> > yours (above) requires investigation using a plethora of data.<br class=""><br class=""> To be clear, finding out the answer to what I (meant to) pose(d)<br class=""> requires no plethora of data: it requires a single query and access to<br class=""> the right repository (the registry). In some theoretical system, the<br class=""> correct underlying database query would be something like this:<br class=""><br class=""> SELECT domain_roid, domain_name FROM domains WHERE registrant_roid = ?;<br class=""><br class=""> and you put the correct ROID in where the question mark is, and off<br class=""> you go. That will give you the list of all the domain names, and<br class=""> their relevant ROIDs, registered by a given registrant contact. At<br class=""> least one registry with which I am familiar once had a WHOIS feature<br class=""> that allowed something close to the above, only it would stop after<br class=""> some number of domains so as not to return too much data. I think the<br class=""> default was therefore LIMIT 50, but I also think the feature was<br class=""> eventually eliminated about the time that the ICANN community rejected<br class=""> IRIS as an answer to "the whois problem".<br class=""><br class=""> What the above will of course not do is help you in the event Bob The<br class=""> Scammer has created dozens of different contacts for himself by (say)<br class=""> registering names through many different registrars. I do not believe<br class=""> that any registry is going to support such a use at least without<br class=""> access controls, because it can be expensive to answer such things.<br class=""> So, what you understood me to be asking, I think, is the question I<br class=""> did _not_ ask: given this human being or organization, what other<br class=""> domains are registered?" That does require a lot of different data,<br class=""> and it requires cross-organizational searches, and it requires sussing<br class=""> out when someone has lied also. Such research is, I agree, completely<br class=""> outside the scope of what any technical system will ever be able to<br class=""> offer reliably.<br class=""><br class=""> > An entire<br class=""> > industry exists for this purpose and I don1t think we should be<br class=""> > considering replacing what has already been existing in the cyber security<br class=""> > marketplace.<br class=""><br class=""> I do not believe it is this WG's responsibility to protect anyone's<br class=""> commercial services if those things are basically in response to<br class=""> deficiencies in the existing Whois protocol. In this case, however,<br class=""> that's not the problem. Linking data in multiple databases to a given<br class=""> real-world human being is hard even in systems without competition and<br class=""> multiple points of access. It's always going to require researchers<br class=""> for the domain name system.<br class=""><br class=""> Best regards.</span></span></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""><br class="">A<br class=""><br class=""><span class="m_-8794609955022991530m-6028739752990097634m-7057533978763232585m7951444643704396651yiv5387804389m615767156484145872m-1989214556801852688m-7832141262075475097hoenzb">--</span><br class=""><span class="m_-8794609955022991530m-6028739752990097634m-7057533978763232585m7951444643704396651yiv5387804389m615767156484145872m-1989214556801852688m-7832141262075475097hoenzb">Andrew Sullivan</span><br class=""><span class="m_-8794609955022991530m-6028739752990097634m-7057533978763232585m7951444643704396651yiv5387804389m615767156484145872m-1989214556801852688m-7832141262075475097hoenzb"><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank" class="">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a></span><br class=""><span class="m_-8794609955022991530m-6028739752990097634m-7057533978763232585m7951444643704396651yiv5387804389m615767156484145872m-1989214556801852688m-7832141262075475097hoenzb">______________________________ _________________</span><br class=""><span class="m_-8794609955022991530m-6028739752990097634m-7057533978763232585m7951444643704396651yiv5387804389m615767156484145872m-1989214556801852688m-7832141262075475097hoenzb">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</span><br class=""><span class="m_-8794609955022991530m-6028739752990097634m-7057533978763232585m7951444643704396651yiv5387804389m615767156484145872m-1989214556801852688m-7832141262075475097hoenzb"><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br class=""><span class="m_-8794609955022991530m-6028739752990097634m-7057533978763232585m7951444643704396651yiv5387804389m615767156484145872m-1989214556801852688m-7832141262075475097hoenzb"><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l
istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></span></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""><br class=""></span></span></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">--</span></span><br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">______________________________ ___<br class=""> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</span></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""><br class="">______________________________ _________________<br class=""> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></span></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">______________________________ _________________</span></span><br class=""></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""><br class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""><br class="">______________________________ _________________</span></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""><br class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/ listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class=""> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class=""> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="background-color:white" class="m_-8794609955022991530highlight"><span class=""> </span></span><br class=""></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class=""></div><div class=""> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class=""></div><div class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""></div><div class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></blockquote></div></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><pre class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class=""></pre><pre class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class=""></pre><pre class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br class=""></pre></blockquote><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><pre class="">-- <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Volker A. Greimann<br class=""></pre><pre class="">- Rechtsabteilung -<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Key-Systems GmbH<br class=""></pre><pre class="">Im Oberen Werk 1<br class=""></pre><pre class="">66386 St. Ingbert<br class=""></pre><pre class="">Tel.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" class="">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br class=""></pre><pre class="">Fax.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" class="">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br class=""></pre><pre class="">Email: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Web: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" class="">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" class="">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" class="">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" class="">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<br class=""></pre><pre class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" class="">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" class="">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br class=""></pre><pre class="">Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br class=""></pre><pre class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" class="">www.keydrive.lu</a> <br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">------------------------------<wbr class="">--------------<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Best regards,<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Volker A. Greimann<br class=""></pre><pre class="">- legal department -<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Key-Systems GmbH<br class=""></pre><pre class="">Im Oberen Werk 1<br class=""></pre><pre class="">66386 St. Ingbert<br class=""></pre><pre class="">Tel.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" class="">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br class=""></pre><pre class="">Fax.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" class="">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br class=""></pre><pre class="">Email: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Web: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" class="">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" class="">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" class="">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" class="">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<br class=""></pre><pre class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" class="">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" class="">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br class=""></pre><pre class="">Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <br class=""></pre><pre class="">V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br class=""></pre><pre class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" class="">www.keydrive.lu</a> <br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class="">This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre><pre class=""> <br class=""></pre></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class=""></div><div class=""> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class=""></div><div class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""></div><div class=""><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <br class=""></p></div></div></div></div><div class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></span></span></span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
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