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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I may be wrong but it appears to me that what you are envisioning goes way beyond proportionality. Also, as I think someone else already stated, your envisioned approach to
thin data access would be operationally very challenging and expensive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> nathalie coupet [mailto:nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 31, 2017 3:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: Does the principle of proportionality apply to thin data?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"> My position was and is to secure unauthenticated access to thin data for all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] Wouldn’t ‘all’ include bad actors and consumers? </span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[NC] Probably, but they would only get to a minimal set of data if they click on the Consumer box </span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">I envisioned access to RDS through 3 chock points to weed out bad actors as much as possible: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">An end-user would need to check the first box for authenticated/unauthenticated access,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] For thin data the WG has already tentatively agreed that access would be unauthenticated so why would a box need to be
checked for this? I was just imagining how the API would work; If you click on authenticated access, you might have access to more than just thin data</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">then another box for consumer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] What is a consumer? If someone was a consumer or not, would that determine what thin data they could access? </span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[NC] Yes, Joe the plumber who needs to check if a website is legitimate or to obtain the identity of the author of a website publishing
incendiary content against plumbers </span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">and a third would be to select the purpose or a default purpose would be selected for him (maybe no purpose could also be possible). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] For thin data the WG has tentatively agreed that access would be granted without identifying a purpose so it appears that
you disagree with that conclusion. I confess to being confused.</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[NC] No, apologies. I was eager to conver all bases.</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Consumers don't need all the thin data to be published for their simple queries, since - in my mind - they want to make sure the website is
legitimate or they want to identify the author in case of abuse (such as defamation, abuse or threats). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">If the principle of proportionality doesn't apply to most other cases, that's fine. But I think it does apply for simple consumer queries. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] What is a ‘simple consumer query’? How does the ‘principle of proportionality’ apply to a simple consumer query? What
is your understanding of what ‘proportionality’ means?</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[NC] A simple query from Joe the plumber would be to check who is writing these articles on DeathtoPumbers.com because he feels threatened.
He would just need a name, not the status of the website, and other thin data. </span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">This is an interesting debate, but I never thought it would lead to people actually proposing to drop vital data for the functioning of the
Internet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">I had in mind the other principle that you do not volunteer data when it is not required. It should be useful. Not because it is PPI, but out
of caution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] It sounds like you are suggesting that RDS requestors should have to identify a purpose for thin data elements. Am I
missing something?</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">[NC] It would not have to be a 'legitimate purpose' as defined in the GDPR; but for consumers, we could map the category of requestor
to a type of query or several types of queries in advance, (and in some cases, add an option for 'other', if needed). In the case of Joe the plumber, he only needs a name, so the query mapped to this requestor type could be a 'Request for thin data to identify
legitimacy or name of website author". </span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 3:14 PM, "Gomes, Chuck" <<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com">cgomes@verisign.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Thanks for the quick reply Nathalie. Please see my responses below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><span class="MsoHyperlink"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> nathalie coupet [<a href="mailto:nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com">mailto:nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 31, 2017 2:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gomes, Chuck <<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com">cgomes@verisign.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: Does the principle of proportionality apply to thin data?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Hi Chuck,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">My position was and is to secure unauthenticated access to thin data for all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] Wouldn’t ‘all’ include bad actors and consumers?</span></i></b><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">I envisioned access to RDS through 3 chock points to weed out bad actors as much as possible: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">An end-user would need to check the first box for authenticated/unauthenticated access,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] For thin data the WG has already tentatively agreed that access would be unauthenticated so why would a box need to be checked for this?</span></i></b><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">then another box for consumer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] What is a consumer? If someone was a consumer or not, would that determine what thin data they could access?</span></i></b><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">and a third would be to select the purpose or a default purpose would be selected for him (maybe no purpose could also be possible). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] For thin data the WG has tentatively agreed that access would be granted without identifying a purpose so it appears that you disagree with
that conclusion. I confess to being confused.</span></i></b><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Consumers don't need all the thin data to be published for their simple queries, since - in my mind - they want to make sure the website is legitimate or they
want to identify the author in case of abuse (such as defamation, abuse or threats). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">If the principle of proportionality doesn't apply to most other cases, that's fine. But I think it does apply for simple consumer queries. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] What is a ‘simple consumer query’? How does the ‘principle of proportionality’ apply to a simple consumer query? What is your understanding
of what ‘proportionality’ means?</span></i></b><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">This is an interesting debate, but I never thought it would lead to people actually proposing to drop vital data for the functioning of the Internet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">I had in mind the other principle that you do not volunteer data when it is not required. It should be useful. Not because it is PPI, but out of caution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">[Gomes, Chuck] It sounds like you are suggesting that RDS requestors should have to identify a purpose for thin data elements. Am I missing something?</span></i></b><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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On May 31, 2017, at 2:21 PM, Gomes, Chuck <<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Nathalie,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Thank you for your suggestion that the principle of proportionality be added. That has generated a very lively discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">As I am sure you have seen, a lot of WG members have stated that they do not believe that the principle of proportionality applies to thin data and have provided
what I think is pretty good rationale in support of their position. As the originator of the suggestion, do you still maintain that the principle applies to thin data? If so, how would you counter the arguments that have been made to the contrary?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">All – If anyone else thinks that the principle of proportionality applies to think data, please speak up and provide your counters to the arguments that have been
made to the contrary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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