<div dir="ltr">I strongly agree with informed consent. When I first purchased my domain, my registrar did not inform me that I was likely to receive spam or renewal scams at the contact info I left. They should be responsible for explaining to the customer how their product works. Changing how the product works to fit customer misconceptions is absurd. Now that I know what info is public and what is not, I now provide the info I think is appropriate.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 12:49 PM, jonathan matkowsky <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net" target="_blank">jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>I agree with Stephanie that the way to address the concerns are to make sure users have provided informed consent. The registration agreement should have a provision under applicable law. </div><div><div class="h5"><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Wed, 31 May 2017 at 19:40 Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I think it is a very
good summary. One issue which we do not discuss very often is
the fact that end users who register a domain name do not
understand very well (if at all) what the implications for
their privacy are. A requirement of most data protection law
is to provide transparency with respect to what happens to
personal data. This job, in my view, has not been tackled by
ICANN in the required way. So while I agree with the summary,
it raises the issue, for those of us who do not understand
what an SOA record is, what thin data is, how the DNS
operates, etc. there is an obligation on ICANN, through its
contractual control of the registries and registrars, to
provide greater clarity about how personal data is managed,
and what the risks might be for the individual. Simply saying
"</font></font>Let's remember we are talking about the public,
open Internet here. Nobody has to participate that doesn't want
to, just like if I don't want anyone to see my license plate
number on the road, I don't have to drive a car either. " <font size="+1">is not adequate. (Licence registries, by the way,
have become private in most jurisdictions because of the risk to
registrants, so the chances of being stalked by some nut with
road rage have mercifully decreased).<u></u><u></u>
</font></p></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><font size="+1">
</font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="+1"><u></u> Stephanie Perrin<br>
<u></u></font></p>
</div></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<div class="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-05-31 11:07, Gomes, Chuck via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
am open to disagreement, but it seems to me that Jonathan
provides a good summary and maybe even a fair conclusion of
the extensive discussion that has occurred on this thread
since Tuesday. Rather than continuing the extensive back
and forth, which in my assessment is mostly repeating things
that have already been said several times, I request that
anyone who disagrees with Jonathan’s conclusions to identify
what you disagree with and provide your reasoning.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Chuck<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-4087860958588523382_m_-605475363330841737__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></a></p>
<span></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a class="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a>
[<a class="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>jonathan matkowsky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 31, 2017 10:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dotzero <a class="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dotzero@gmail.com" target="_blank"><dotzero@gmail.com></a>; Volker
Greimann <a class="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"><vgreimann@key-systems.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> RDS PDP WG <a class="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Principle
on Proportionality for "Thin Data"access<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think the discussion here reflects
confusion between what's available in DNS based on the
domain name alone, and Thin Whois data. The fact of whether
SOA records or A records may contain PII is a totally
separate issue than Thin Whois data elements.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Based on a domain name alone, one can use
it to query DNS for record elements that may contain PII or
when combined with other data, can be used to obtain PII.
But all of this PII is in the public domain voluntarily by
their owners, and more importantly, is outside the framework
of discussion, which is limited to Whois database--not DNS.
They are simply not the same.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So the fact that you can get SOA records
from the domain name alone begs the question of whether the
domain name needs to be protected because when combined with
other data elements, can be used to obtain PII.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But the domain names are publicly
available on the internet by virtue of being in the zone
files. So the fact you can obtain the domain from thin Whois
doesn't make it any more available than it is from the zone
files. It is outside the framework of discussion.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The thin Whois database is not what is
making domain names available--so the SOA records for the
domain is not a good example, even if someone put PII in
that field--as that is an issue of domain names being
publicly available together with DNS. Totally outside the
framework of discussion.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The creation date of a domain, the NS
records, when the domain was last updated, and the registrar
of record are simply not by any stretch of the imagination
arguably PII by virtue of Whois. This is information that
was voluntarily made public by virtue of using the public
Internet which relies on DNS. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Privacy enthusiasts can use .Onion if
they want to. But if they want to use the open Internet,
that means some basic data by definition is publicly
available in the DNS. If they want to protect their privacy,
then they need to use common sense and not put information
they dont want to be made public into the public. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The creation date is as a matter of fact,
used as one of several indicators to show a domain engaged
in malicious activity was unlikely a victim of being
compromised. It is a critical piece of data but also not by
any stretch of the wildest imagination PII. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The principle of proportionality doesn't
apply to thin data unless you want to argue it applies to
the very fact a domain name record was created in the public
Internet. By creating the record, a user has chosen to make
that record's existence public--regardless of whether they
use privacy protection or not. If I register my name and
birthday as a domain name, it is PII, but PII that I chose
to be made publicly available by virtue of creating the
domain and putting it into the zone. Does that mean I am
somehow entitled to have all the RFCs re-written for me and
for the public Internet to be made private? Of course not.
So when people make things public voluntarily by virtue of
participating in society, the principles of data protection
apply differently. Let's remember we are talking about the
public, open Internet here. Nobody has to participate that
doesn't want to, just like if I don't want anyone to see my
license plate number on the road, I don't have to drive a
car either. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, 31 May 2017 at 16:50 Dotzero
<<a href="mailto:dotzero@gmail.com" target="_blank">dotzero@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Translation (per Google translate)
of what Volker posted:<br>
<br>
<span class="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m-377313414510063557gmail-"><span lang="EN">"On the basis of the ECJ ruling, the
factual feature" personal data "of § 12 (1) and
(2) TMG in conjunction with § 3 (1) BDSG must be
interpreted in accordance with the guidelines: a
dynamic IP address provided by a provider of
online media services In the case of access by a
person to a website, which is made generally
accessible by the provider, constitutes a
(protected) personal date for the provider.</span></span><span lang="EN"><br>
<br>
<span class="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m-377313414510063557gmail-">The IP
address can only be stored as a personal date
under the prerequisites of § 15 (1) TMG. This
provision is to be applied in accordance with the
provisions of Article 7 (f) of Directive 95/46 EC,
as interpreted by the Court of Justice, to the
effect that a provider of on-line media services
may collect personal data of a user without the
consent of the user of the services To the extent
that their collection and use is necessary to
ensure the general functioning of the services.
However, there is a need to balance the interests
and the basic rights and freedoms of the users. "</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 9:47 AM,
Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Why, just this month the German
Bundesgerichtshof confirmed this in a review of
a decision of the state court Berlin ( Az. VI ZR
135/13):<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><a href="http://juris.bundesgerichtshof.de/cgi-bin/rechtsprechung/document.py?Gericht=bgh&Art=pm&Datum=2017&Sort=3&nr=78289&pos=0&anz=74" target="_blank">http://juris.<wbr>bundesgerichtshof.de/cgi-bin/<wbr>rechtsprechung/document.py?<wbr>Gericht=bgh&Art=pm&Datum=2017&<wbr>Sort=3&nr=78289&pos=0&anz=74</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p>It followed the decision of the European Court
from October last year:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>C-582/14, NJW 2016, 3579<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>The German explanation:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><i>"Auf der Grundlage des EuGH-Urteils ist das
Tatbestandsmerkmal "personenbezogene Daten"
des § 12 Abs. 1 und 2 TMG in Verbindung mit §
3 Abs. 1 BDSG richtlinienkonform auszulegen:
Eine dynamische IP-Adresse, die von einem
Anbieter von Online-Mediendiensten beim
Zugriff einer Person auf eine Internetseite,
die dieser Anbieter allgemein zugänglich
macht, gespeichert wird, stellt für den
Anbieter ein (geschütztes) personenbezogenes
Datum dar.
</i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><i>Als personenbezogenes Datum darf die
IP-Adresse nur unter den Voraussetzungen des §
15 Abs. 1 TMG gespeichert werden. Diese
Vorschrift ist richtlinienkonform entsprechend
Art. 7 Buchst. f der Richtlinie 95/46 EG – in
der Auslegung durch den EuGH – dahin
anzuwenden, dass ein Anbieter von
Online-Mediendiensten personenbezogene Daten
eines Nutzers dieser Dienste ohne dessen
Einwilligung auch über das Ende eines
Nutzungsvorgangs hinaus dann erheben und
verwenden darf, soweit ihre Erhebung und ihre
Verwendung erforderlich sind, um die generelle
Funktionsfähigkeit der Dienste zu
gewährleisten. Dabei bedarf es allerdings
einer Abwägung mit dem Interesse und den
Grundrechten und -freiheiten der Nutzer."</i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Hope this helps.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 31.05.2017 um 15:38
schrieb Paul Keating:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p><span style="color:black">See: recent
Europrean court decisions on IP
addresses as PII.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can you please
provide the citations? I a-m not aware
of any court decision issuingsuch a
broad ruling. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 31 May 2017, at 12:20, Volker
Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>In some cases the ability to use data
set A in combination with data set B
to enable one to identify an
individual turns data set A into PII.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>See: recent Europrean court decisions
on IP addresses as PII.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>I am with you in viewing thin data as
rather unlikely to be defined as PII,
but depending on how this data is used
it is not inconceivable that it may be
found to contain PII depending on the
use. Unlikely, but not impossible.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Volker<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 30.05.2017 um
23:40 schrieb Paul Keating:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Im sorry but i
don't see the logic here (or the
legal constraint)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Privacy laws
protect personal data of
INDIVIDUALS. They do t protect
non-personal data or data from
non-individuals.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Nothing on the
list below is personal data. And
no e of the principles given by
Natalie apply.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">The fact that i
could use the data to obtain other
data is irrelevant. I can use a
car to rob a bank but that itself
is not a reason to restrict access
to automobiles.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Me thinks you
are trying to create a scarcity
for some reason.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 30 May 2017, at 23:22, Chris
Pelling <<a href="mailto:chris@netearth.net" target="_blank">chris@netearth.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">ok
- a thought :<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Thin
data includes nameservers,
being able to
<strong><u><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">mass</span></u></strong>
collect thin data gaining
NS information then allows
you to do a DIG of a SOA
record on the DNS service
to gain the email address
of the hostmaster :
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Some
examples (radomly picked
from the list) :<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>
:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">SOA
<a href="http://ns1.google.com" target="_blank">ns1.google.com</a>. <a href="http://dns-admin.google.com" target="_blank">
dns-admin.google.com</a>.
157458041 900 900 1800 60<br>
<a href="http://netearthone.com" target="_blank">netearthone.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">SOA
<a href="http://ns1.netearth.net" target="_blank">ns1.netearth.net</a>. <a href="http://root.netearthone.com" target="_blank">
root.netearthone.com</a>.
<a href="tel:%28201%29%20609-0201" target="_blank">2016090201</a> 14400
3600 1209600 86400<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://law.es" target="_blank">law.es</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">SOA
<a href="http://ns1.eurodns.com" target="_blank">ns1.eurodns.com</a>. <a href="http://hostmaster.eurodns.com" target="_blank">
hostmaster.eurodns.com</a>.
<a href="tel:%28201%29%20606-1402" target="_blank">2016061402</a> 43200
7200 1209600 86400<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://riskiq.net" target="_blank">riskiq.net</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">SOA
<a href="http://ns-1754.awsdns-27.co.uk" target="_blank">ns-1754.awsdns-27.co.uk</a>.
<a href="http://awsdns-hostmaster.amazon.com" target="_blank">awsdns-hostmaster.amazon.com</a>.
1 7200 900 1209600 86400<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Now
as you can see - those
above examples allow you
to get (or build) an email
list. Most will normally
point to the providers
service, but, some that
are DIY'ing their hosting,
it might not be.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Kind
regards,<br>
<br>
Chris<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">"allison
nixon" <<a href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To: </b>"nathalie
coupet" <<a href="mailto:nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com" target="_blank">nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
<<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, 30
May, 2017 21:52:32<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Principle on
Proportionality for
"Thin Data"access<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">so
can you name one
specific example of how
someone could abuse thin
data?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On Tue, May
30, 2017 at 4:50 PM,
nathalie coupet via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287437">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Abuse</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> is
the improper
usage or
treatment of
an </span><span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity" title="Entity" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b0080;background:white">entity</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">,
often to </span><span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_justice" title="Distributive justice" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b0080;background:white">unfairly</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> or
improperly
gain benefit.
In our
context, abuse
is the
improper usage
of WHOIS/RDS
to unfairly or
improperly
gain access to
information or
to game the
system. </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287437">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287437">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Here
are some of
the
overarching
principles
which should
guide us when
building RDS: </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287437">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287894">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">DATA
LIFECYCLE
PRIVACY
PRINCIPLE
PROTECTION
MEASURE</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287897">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Collection
Proportionality
and purpose
specification
Data
minimisation,
Data quality</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287900">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Storage
Accountability,
Security
measures,
Sensitive data
Confidentiality, Encryption, Pseudonomisation</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287903">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Sharing
and processing
Lawfulness and
fairness,
Consent, Right
of access
Data access
control, Data
leakage
prevention</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Deletion
Openness,
Right to
erasure
Retention,
Archival,
Erasure</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">If
such
principles are
not respected,
ICANN will be
liable.
Consumers
don't need to
have all the
thin data when
making a
query. This
could protect
them and
enable them to
have access to
the RDS
without
raising much
opposition. </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Now,
we could
discuss the
possibility
for broader
query types.
These
principles
would still
apply, but
would be
contextualized
in order to
take into
account new
sets of
parameters for
each broader
query. By
increasing
granularity as
much as
possible,
while applying
these
aformentioned
principles, we
just might
find a way to
accomodate
everyone. </span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Nathalie <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On
Tuesday, May
30, 2017 4:00
PM, John
Horton <<a href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" target="_blank">john.horton@legitscript.com</a>>
wrote:</span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444">I
was going to
reply to
Natalie's
email as well,
but Paul's
comments
capture my
thoughts, so:
<b>+1. </b><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763">John
Horton<br>
President and
CEO,
LegitScript</span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#444444">Follow</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Legit</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Script</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">:
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#cc0000">LinkedIn</span></a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" target="_blank"><span style="color:#6aa84f">Facebook</span></a>
| <a href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" target="_blank"><span style="color:#674ea7">Twitter</span></a>
| </span><u><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#ff9900"><a href="http://blog.legitscript.com/" target="_blank">Blog</a></span></u><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">
|</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#ff9900">
<a href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts" target="_blank">Google+</a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">On
Tue, May 30,
2017 at 12:57
PM, Paul
Keating <<a href="mailto:paul@law.es" target="_blank">paul@law.es</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093yqt77589">
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Natalie,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Thank
you for the
email. Im
copying the
list because i
see others
have replied
to your
comment.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">I
strenuously
object to the
concept. We
are discussing
THIN DATA ONLY
HERE. Unless
someone can
explain to me
why any of
this data set
has privacy
concerns this
is a
non-issue. I
would
certainly
appreciate
someone
explaining
what, if any,
privacy issues
are perceived
to be at issue
here.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Moreover,
while you
suggest that
the idea
escapes the
need to
declare a
purpose, it
does nothing
but reinforce
a subjective
criteria based
system in
which the
declared
purpose is
used to
somehow limit
the data being
retrieved.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">If
i am missing
something
please let me
know. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><br>
Paul<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><br>
Sent from my
iPad<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><br>
On 30 May
2017, at
21:08,
nathalie
coupet via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg
<<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Hi Paul,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>In the context of thin data, in view of the
opposition of
some to allow
unauthenticated access to all the thin data, the principle of
proportionality
serves as an
over-arching
principle at
this
particular
phase in our
work in order
to protect
data from
abuse while
not
restricting
access. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Thin data must be proportionate to the query, be
useful for
that
particular
query. All and
any other thin
data foreign
to this query
should not be
shared. This
principle
potentially
avoids having
to resort to
'legitimate
purposes'
which cannot
be verified
for
unauthenticated
access. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Nathalie <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On
Tuesday, May
30, 2017 2:44
PM, "Gomes,
Chuck via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
<<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>>
wrote:</span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Because
Nathalie was
the originator
and was unable
to speak on
the call, I
encourage her
to describe
the nature of
the issue on
this thread.</span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Chuck</span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><a name="m_-4087860958588523382_m_-605475363330841737_m_-377313414510063557_m_-798267218685221"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span></a><span></span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-4087860958588523382m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945yiv0605036320yqt95202">
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.
</a></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></div></blockquote></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">jonathan matkowsky, vp - ip & head of global brand threat mitigation</div>
</div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________<br>Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
</div>