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<p>I am not sure a provision in the RA is going to be sufficient for
every case. In some cases a seperated agreement may be required.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.05.2017 um 18:49 schrieb jonathan
matkowsky:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALsyHB=C=Dc3J8+T2HGZEfSGh+ZeB7SzpK5ywQDkGcxJHgATfg@mail.gmail.com">
<div>I agree with Stephanie that the way to address the concerns
are to make sure users have provided informed consent. The
registration agreement should have a provision under applicable
law. </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Wed, 31 May 2017 at 19:40 Stephanie Perrin <<a
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I think it
is a very good summary. One issue which we do not
discuss very often is the fact that end users who
register a domain name do not understand very well
(if at all) what the implications for their privacy
are. A requirement of most data protection law is
to provide transparency with respect to what happens
to personal data. This job, in my view, has not
been tackled by ICANN in the required way. So while
I agree with the summary, it raises the issue, for
those of us who do not understand what an SOA record
is, what thin data is, how the DNS operates, etc.
there is an obligation on ICANN, through its
contractual control of the registries and
registrars, to provide greater clarity about how
personal data is managed, and what the risks might
be for the individual. Simply saying "</font></font>Let's
remember we are talking about the public, open Internet
here. Nobody has to participate that doesn't want to,
just like if I don't want anyone to see my license plate
number on the road, I don't have to drive a car either.
" <font size="+1">is not adequate. (Licence
registries, by the way, have become private in most
jurisdictions because of the risk to registrants, so
the chances of being stalked by some nut with road
rage have mercifully decreased). </font></p>
</div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><font size="+1"> </font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="+1"> Stephanie Perrin<br>
</font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<div class="m_-605475363330841737moz-cite-prefix">On
2017-05-31 11:07, Gomes, Chuck via gnso-rds-pdp-wg
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="m_-605475363330841737WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
am open to disagreement, but it seems to me that
Jonathan provides a good summary and maybe even a
fair conclusion of the extensive discussion that
has occurred on this thread since Tuesday. Rather
than continuing the extensive back and forth,
which in my assessment is mostly repeating things
that have already been said several times, I
request that anyone who disagrees with Jonathan’s
conclusions to identify what you disagree with and
provide your reasoning.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Chuck</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
name="m_-605475363330841737__MailEndCompose"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></a></p>
<span></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <a
class="m_-605475363330841737moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a
class="m_-605475363330841737moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>jonathan matkowsky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 31, 2017 10:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dotzero <a
class="m_-605475363330841737moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dotzero@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><dotzero@gmail.com></a>;
Volker Greimann <a
class="m_-605475363330841737moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><vgreimann@key-systems.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> RDS PDP WG <a
class="m_-605475363330841737moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Principle on Proportionality for "Thin Data"access</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think the discussion here
reflects confusion between what's available in DNS
based on the domain name alone, and Thin Whois
data. The fact of whether SOA records or A records
may contain PII is a totally separate issue than
Thin Whois data elements.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Based on a domain name alone,
one can use it to query DNS for record elements
that may contain PII or when combined with other
data, can be used to obtain PII. But all of this
PII is in the public domain voluntarily by their
owners, and more importantly, is outside the
framework of discussion, which is limited to Whois
database--not DNS. They are simply not the same.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So the fact that you can get
SOA records from the domain name alone begs the
question of whether the domain name needs to be
protected because when combined with other data
elements, can be used to obtain PII.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But the domain names are
publicly available on the internet by virtue of
being in the zone files. So the fact you can
obtain the domain from thin Whois doesn't make it
any more available than it is from the zone files.
It is outside the framework of discussion.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The thin Whois database is not
what is making domain names available--so the SOA
records for the domain is not a good example, even
if someone put PII in that field--as that is an
issue of domain names being publicly available
together with DNS. Totally outside the framework
of discussion.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The creation date of a domain,
the NS records, when the domain was last updated,
and the registrar of record are simply not by any
stretch of the imagination arguably PII by virtue
of Whois. This is information that was voluntarily
made public by virtue of using the public Internet
which relies on DNS. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Privacy enthusiasts can use
.Onion if they want to. But if they want to use
the open Internet, that means some basic data by
definition is publicly available in the DNS. If
they want to protect their privacy, then they need
to use common sense and not put information they
dont want to be made public into the public. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The creation date is as a
matter of fact, used as one of several indicators
to show a domain engaged in malicious activity was
unlikely a victim of being compromised. It is a
critical piece of data but also not by any stretch
of the wildest imagination PII. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The principle of
proportionality doesn't apply to thin data unless
you want to argue it applies to the very fact a
domain name record was created in the public
Internet. By creating the record, a user has
chosen to make that record's existence
public--regardless of whether they use privacy
protection or not. If I register my name and
birthday as a domain name, it is PII, but PII that
I chose to be made publicly available by virtue of
creating the domain and putting it into the zone.
Does that mean I am somehow entitled to have all
the RFCs re-written for me and for the public
Internet to be made private? Of course not. So
when people make things public voluntarily by
virtue of participating in society, the principles
of data protection apply differently. Let's
remember we are talking about the public, open
Internet here. Nobody has to participate that
doesn't want to, just like if I don't want anyone
to see my license plate number on the road, I
don't have to drive a car either. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, 31 May 2017 at
16:50 Dotzero <<a
href="mailto:dotzero@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dotzero@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Translation (per Google
translate) of what Volker posted:<br>
<br>
<span
class="m_-605475363330841737m-377313414510063557gmail-"><span
lang="EN">"On the basis of the ECJ
ruling, the factual feature" personal
data "of § 12 (1) and (2) TMG in
conjunction with § 3 (1) BDSG must be
interpreted in accordance with the
guidelines: a dynamic IP address
provided by a provider of online media
services In the case of access by a
person to a website, which is made
generally accessible by the provider,
constitutes a (protected) personal date
for the provider.</span></span><span
lang="EN"><br>
<br>
<span
class="m_-605475363330841737m-377313414510063557gmail-">The
IP address can only be stored as a
personal date under the prerequisites of
§ 15 (1) TMG. This provision is to be
applied in accordance with the
provisions of Article 7 (f) of Directive
95/46 EC, as interpreted by the Court of
Justice, to the effect that a provider
of on-line media services may collect
personal data of a user without the
consent of the user of the services To
the extent that their collection and use
is necessary to ensure the general
functioning of the services. However,
there is a need to balance the interests
and the basic rights and freedoms of the
users. "</span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, May 31, 2017 at
9:47 AM, Volker Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Why, just this month the German
Bundesgerichtshof confirmed this in a
review of a decision of the state
court Berlin ( Az. VI ZR 135/13):</p>
<p><a
href="http://juris.bundesgerichtshof.de/cgi-bin/rechtsprechung/document.py?Gericht=bgh&Art=pm&Datum=2017&Sort=3&nr=78289&pos=0&anz=74"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://juris.bundesgerichtshof.de/cgi-bin/rechtsprechung/document.py?Gericht=bgh&Art=pm&Datum=2017&Sort=3&nr=78289&pos=0&anz=74</a></p>
<p>It followed the decision of the
European Court from October last year:</p>
<p>C-582/14, NJW 2016, 3579</p>
<p>The German explanation:</p>
<p><i>"Auf der Grundlage des
EuGH-Urteils ist das
Tatbestandsmerkmal "personenbezogene
Daten" des § 12 Abs. 1 und 2 TMG in
Verbindung mit § 3 Abs. 1 BDSG
richtlinienkonform auszulegen: Eine
dynamische IP-Adresse, die von einem
Anbieter von Online-Mediendiensten
beim Zugriff einer Person auf eine
Internetseite, die dieser Anbieter
allgemein zugänglich macht,
gespeichert wird, stellt für den
Anbieter ein (geschütztes)
personenbezogenes Datum dar. </i></p>
<p><i>Als personenbezogenes Datum darf
die IP-Adresse nur unter den
Voraussetzungen des § 15 Abs. 1 TMG
gespeichert werden. Diese Vorschrift
ist richtlinienkonform entsprechend
Art. 7 Buchst. f der Richtlinie
95/46 EG – in der Auslegung durch
den EuGH – dahin anzuwenden, dass
ein Anbieter von
Online-Mediendiensten
personenbezogene Daten eines Nutzers
dieser Dienste ohne dessen
Einwilligung auch über das Ende
eines Nutzungsvorgangs hinaus dann
erheben und verwenden darf, soweit
ihre Erhebung und ihre Verwendung
erforderlich sind, um die generelle
Funktionsfähigkeit der Dienste zu
gewährleisten. Dabei bedarf es
allerdings einer Abwägung mit dem
Interesse und den Grundrechten und
-freiheiten der Nutzer."</i></p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 31.05.2017
um 15:38 schrieb Paul Keating:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p><span style="color:black">See:
recent Europrean court
decisions on IP addresses
as PII.</span></p>
</blockquote>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can you
please provide the citations?
I a-m not aware of any court
decision issuingsuch a broad
ruling. </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 31 May 2017, at 12:20,
Volker Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>In some cases the ability
to use data set A in
combination with data set B
to enable one to identify an
individual turns data set A
into PII. </p>
<p>See: recent Europrean court
decisions on IP addresses as
PII.</p>
<p>I am with you in viewing
thin data as rather unlikely
to be defined as PII, but
depending on how this data
is used it is not
inconceivable that it may be
found to contain PII
depending on the use.
Unlikely, but not
impossible.</p>
<p>Volker</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am
30.05.2017 um 23:40
schrieb Paul Keating:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Im
sorry but i don't see
the logic here (or the
legal constraint)</p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Privacy
laws protect personal
data of INDIVIDUALS.
They do t protect
non-personal data or
data from
non-individuals.</p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Nothing
on the list below is
personal data. And no e
of the principles given
by Natalie apply.</p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">The
fact that i could use
the data to obtain other
data is irrelevant. I
can use a car to rob a
bank but that itself is
not a reason to restrict
access to automobiles.</p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Me
thinks you are trying to
create a scarcity for
some reason.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 30 May 2017, at
23:22, Chris Pelling
<<a
href="mailto:chris@netearth.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@netearth.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">ok - a
thought :</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Thin data
includes
nameservers,
being able to <strong><u><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">mass</span></u></strong>
collect thin
data gaining NS
information then
allows you to do
a DIG of a SOA
record on the
DNS service to
gain the email
address of the
hostmaster : </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Some
examples
(radomly picked
from the list)
:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="http://gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gmail.com</a> :</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">SOA <a
href="http://ns1.google.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ns1.google.com</a>.
<a
href="http://dns-admin.google.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"> dns-admin.google.com</a>.
157458041 900
900 1800 60<br>
<a
href="http://netearthone.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">netearthone.com</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">SOA <a
href="http://ns1.netearth.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ns1.netearth.net</a>.
<a
href="http://root.netearthone.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"> root.netearthone.com</a>. <a
href="tel:%28201%29%20609-0201"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">2016090201</a> 14400 3600 1209600
86400</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="http://law.es"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">law.es</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">SOA <a
href="http://ns1.eurodns.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ns1.eurodns.com</a>.
<a
href="http://hostmaster.eurodns.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"> hostmaster.eurodns.com</a>. <a
href="tel:%28201%29%20606-1402" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">2016061402</a>
43200 7200
1209600 86400</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="http://riskiq.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">riskiq.net</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">SOA <a
href="http://ns-1754.awsdns-27.co.uk" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ns-1754.awsdns-27.co.uk</a>.
<a
href="http://awsdns-hostmaster.amazon.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">awsdns-hostmaster.amazon.com</a>.
1 7200 900
1209600 86400</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Now as you
can see - those
above examples
allow you to get
(or build) an
email list.
Most will
normally point
to the providers
service, but,
some that are
DIY'ing their
hosting, it
might not be.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Kind
regards,<br>
<br>
Chris</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">
<hr
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151zwchr"
size="3"
align="center"
width="100%"> </span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">"allison
nixon" <<a
href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To: </b>"nathalie
coupet" <<a
href="mailto:nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday,
30 May, 2017
21:52:32<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Principle on Proportionality for
"Thin Data"access</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">so can you
name one
specific
example of how
someone could
abuse thin
data?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On Tue, May
30, 2017 at
4:50 PM,
nathalie
coupet via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287437">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Abuse</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> is
the improper
usage or
treatment of
an </span><span><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity" title="Entity"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b0080;background:white">entity</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">,
often to </span><span><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_justice"
title="Distributive
justice"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b0080;background:white">unfairly</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> or
improperly
gain benefit.
In our
context, abuse
is the
improper usage
of WHOIS/RDS
to unfairly or
improperly
gain access to
information or
to game the
system. </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287437">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287437">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Here
are some of
the
overarching
principles
which should
guide us when
building RDS: </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287437">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287894">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">DATA
LIFECYCLE
PRIVACY
PRINCIPLE
PROTECTION
MEASURE</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287897">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Collection
Proportionality
and purpose
specification
Data
minimisation,
Data quality</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287900">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Storage
Accountability,
Security
measures,
Sensitive data
Confidentiality, Encryption, Pseudonomisation</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287903">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Sharing
and processing
Lawfulness and
fairness,
Consent, Right
of access
Data access
control, Data
leakage
prevention</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Deletion
Openness,
Right to
erasure
Retention,
Archival,
Erasure</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">If
such
principles are
not respected,
ICANN will be
liable.
Consumers
don't need to
have all the
thin data when
making a
query. This
could protect
them and
enable them to
have access to
the RDS
without
raising much
opposition. </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287906">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Now,
we could
discuss the
possibility
for broader
query types.
These
principles
would still
apply, but
would be
contextualized
in order to
take into
account new
sets of
parameters for
each broader
query. By
increasing
granularity as
much as
possible,
while applying
these
aformentioned
principles, we
just might
find a way to
accomodate
everyone. </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287437">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287437">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287435">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_287433">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Nathalie </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On
Tuesday, May
30, 2017 4:00
PM, John
Horton <<a
href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">john.horton@legitscript.com</a>>
wrote:</span><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444">I
was going to
reply to
Natalie's
email as well,
but Paul's
comments
capture my
thoughts, so:
<b>+1. </b></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><br
clear="all">
</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763">John
Horton<br>
President and
CEO,
LegitScript</span><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#444444">Follow</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">
</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Legit</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Script</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">:
<a
href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#cc0000">LinkedIn</span></a>
| <a
href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#6aa84f">Facebook</span></a>
| <a
href="https://twitter.com/legitscript"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#674ea7">Twitter</span></a>
| </span><u><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#ff9900"><a
href="http://blog.legitscript.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Blog</a></span></u><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">
|</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#ff9900">
<a
href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Google+</a></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">On
Tue, May 30,
2017 at 12:57
PM, Paul
Keating <<a
href="mailto:paul@law.es" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">paul@law.es</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093yqt77589">
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Natalie,</span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Thank
you for the
email. Im
copying the
list because i
see others
have replied
to your
comment.</span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">I
strenuously
object to the
concept. We
are discussing
THIN DATA ONLY
HERE. Unless
someone can
explain to me
why any of
this data set
has privacy
concerns this
is a
non-issue. I
would
certainly
appreciate
someone
explaining
what, if any,
privacy issues
are perceived
to be at issue
here.</span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Moreover,
while you
suggest that
the idea
escapes the
need to
declare a
purpose, it
does nothing
but reinforce
a subjective
criteria based
system in
which the
declared
purpose is
used to
somehow limit
the data being
retrieved.</span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">If
i am missing
something
please let me
know. </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><br>
Paul</span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945AppleMailSignature">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><br>
Sent from my
iPad</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><br>
On 30 May
2017, at
21:08,
nathalie
coupet via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_239556">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Hi Paul,</span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_239556">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_239556">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>In the context of thin data, in view of
the opposition
of some to
allow
unauthenticated access to all the thin data, the principle of
proportionality
serves as an
over-arching
principle at
this
particular
phase in our
work in order
to protect
data from
abuse while
not
restricting
access. </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_239556">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Thin data must be proportionate to the
query, be
useful for
that
particular
query. All and
any other thin
data foreign
to this query
should not be
shared. This
principle
potentially
avoids having
to resort to
'legitimate
purposes'
which cannot
be verified
for
unauthenticated
access. </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_239556">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_239558">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496151286812_239560">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Nathalie </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On
Tuesday, May
30, 2017 2:44
PM, "Gomes,
Chuck via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>>
wrote:</span><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945yiv0605036320">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Because
Nathalie was
the originator
and was unable
to speak on
the call, I
encourage her
to describe
the nature of
the issue on
this thread.</span><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Chuck</span><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><a
name="m_-605475363330841737_m_-377313414510063557_m_-798267218685221"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> </span></a><span></span><span
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-605475363330841737m_-377313414510063557m_-7982672186852212151m_-1108286820301507687yiv8771876093m_-2551964071040587945yiv0605036320yqt95202">
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann. </a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-- <br>
</div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">jonathan matkowsky, vp - ip
& head of global brand threat mitigation</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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