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<p>I am not saying that publishing the creation date is screwing
over people, I merely pointed out that it is currently being used
for that very purpose. Domain registrant are getting conned,
abused and worse because that data point is being used (in
connection with other data points) This data point allows this
abuse to be much more targeted and therefore successful.<br>
</p>
<p> I am sure there are other purposes that it is being used for as
well, some honorable, some useful, some neutral to the overall
state of the universe, but in the end I merely asked if it was
stricly necessary for the purpose of the operation of the
internet, without making any assumption on other yet to be defined
purposes.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 01.06.2017 um 18:34 schrieb John
Bambenek:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:082F30A8-494B-4894-A058-55360459A384@bambenekconsulting.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>Because you a priori invalidate all our data and use cases as
irrelevant. The operations of the internet are more complicated
than mere transferring a domain for registrar to operator. </div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">I gave you an example of using
creation date as a factor in filtering. You immediately labeled
it as screwing over people. Do you really expect me to keep
jumping through your hoops? I mean I am just a mere
self-proclaimed security researcher. <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On Jun 1, 2017, at 11:22, Volker Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<p>Note that I did not say "a need" in general, but
specifically "a need for the purpose of the operationality
of the internet". I have not seen any convincing use cases
for that need for these three data points.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>VG<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 01.06.2017 um 18:19 schrieb
John Bambenek:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1B1715F8-A3D1-43F6-8692-FF6C9A711376@bambenekconsulting.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<div>The people who are engaged daily on anti-abuse are
saying yes. Why are those who are not engaged in
anti-abuse so eager to tell us what we need or don't need
in doing our jobs? How many ways and use cases do we have
to present until its accepted that, yes, the anti-abuse
community needs this?<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On Jun 1, 2017, at 04:25, Volker Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<p>Even if there if no PII in thin data (and I am
leaning to that direction myself), if there really a
need for all these fields to be public for the purpose
of the operationality of the internet? I am thinking
of the created, updated and expiration dates in
particular since those are the ones leading to the
most abusive use.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.05.2017 um 19:22
schrieb jonathan matkowsky:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALsyHBmXspdsbqXZ046LZbgS9Di5b9OAL7nsn=By8TMnRRJ9Rg@mail.gmail.com">
<div>Thin Whois data doesn't have PII - We were saying
that for registration DETAILS that can be queried
from the existence of a domain name (which are NOT
in thin Whois data), the way to deal with that is
informed consent. The thin Whois data is
cross-referenced against the domain name that was
created. The domain itself exists. We very much can
say that there is no PII in thin Whois data for
domain names. DNS queries and SOA records are not
part of this working group. And the fact you can use
the Whois PROTOCOL to query RIRs also has nothing
whatsoever to do with the Whois DATABASE, especially
thin Whois. We can still be privacy champions
without turning everything into a privacy concern,
especially where none exists. The privacy issues to
the extent they do exist, are not within the subject
matter at issue. And therefore, there is simply no
proportionality principle that need be applied here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Wed, 31 May 2017 at 20:10 Michael
Peddemors <<a
href="mailto:michael@linuxmagic.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">michael@linuxmagic.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">On 17-05-31 10:07 AM,
allison nixon wrote:<br>
> the rest of it can't be. You can't put a
DNS query behind a EULA. We<br>
> can't pretend there are restrictions on
this data.<br>
><br>
<br>
We aren't discussing DNS or any other places
that data is available as<br>
part of this working group. Only the informed
consent of data held in<br>
whois thin data.<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
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@linuxmagic<br>
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<div dir="ltr">-- <br>
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<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">jonathan
matkowsky, vp - ip & head of global brand threat
mitigation</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
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This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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