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<p>Good question Tom, and I guess we will have to see how the
providers of services will deal with it. I certainly do not
remember giving consent in the required form when I joined
Facebook or was auto-joined to Google Plus...</p>
<p>VG<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 01.06.2017 um 18:17 schrieb Tom
Lancaster:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAO2t5r4Fre3XoHZ20qPVoWPyNX8ML9tq3_pJ=anMS7AYVfcYhw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">How do other fields get
around this? WHOIS data is not the first domain where by
participating the participant will have to publish a small
amount of data that could be considered PII for the world to
see....</span><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">For example, if I create
pretty much any social media account, my username/profile
name could be considered PII, and by default it (and likely
a whole bunch of other data) would be visible to anyone who
searches for it on that social media platform... How is
creating a domain different in terms of the privacy
regulations and public visibility of the data therein?</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 1 June 2017 at 17:08, Volker
Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>As it has been brought up by Dotzero in a very reckless
manner, I feel it is important to point out what
"consent" actually means in the context of the GDPR:</p>
<p>First, implied consent is no longer sufficient under
the current regulation. The GDPR requires that the data
subject signals agreement to the specific and defined
use of its data by "a statement or a clear affirmative
action".</p>
<p>In other words, an explicit and seperate opt-in is
required, where the action of providing consent is
clearly distinguishable from any other matters in a
written document. This may be ticking a seperate box on
a website or choosing specific technical settings, but
in all cases it must be based on an explanation of what
it is that the data subject is agreeing to. Silence,
pre-ticked boxes or inactivity is insufficient. Hiding
the consent clauses in the registration agreement is
insufficient.<br>
</p>
<p>This consent must be "freely given, specific, informed
and unambiguous."</p>
<p>Fun stuff comes in the next bit:</p>
<p><span class="m_-2603083178053328424md">The controller
is required to provide “accurate and full information
on all relevant issues,” including the nature of the
data that will be processed, the purposes of
processing, the identity of the controller, and<b> the
identity of any other recipients of the data</b>.</span></p>
<p><span class="m_-2603083178053328424md">I will highlight
the salient part again: "ANY OTHER RECIPIENTS OF THE
DATA." So no expansion of those with access at a later
data, because that would immediately invalidate the
consent given.</span></p>
<p><span class="m_-2603083178053328424md">Finally, this:</span></p>
<p><span class="m_-2603083178053328424md">"</span><span
class="m_-2603083178053328424md">Importantly, a
controller may not make a service conditional upon
consent, unless the processing is necessary for the
service." <br>
So no consent can be construed for any uses beyond the
functioning of the service, the internet and any other
use tied directly to the service. All those nice uses
that whois data is currently put to that have nothing
to do with the service that is provided to the data
subject? Say goodbye to them now!<br>
</span></p>
Further reading for those so inclined:<br>
<a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://iapp.org/news/a/top-10-operational-impacts-of-the-gdpr-part-3-consent/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://iapp.org/news/a/top-<wbr>10-operational-impacts-of-the-<wbr>gdpr-part-3-consent/</a><br>
<br>
<span class="m_-2603083178053328424md">Also note that the
consent provided by current registrant does not satisfy
the requirements, so what happens with legacy data with
regard to its import into any RDS system will be a whole
new nightmare down the road.</span><br>
<br>
<div class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-cite-prefix">Am
01.06.2017 um 17:41 schrieb Michael Peddemors:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">+1 <br>
<br>
On 17-06-01 07:47 AM, Dotzero wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">The issue you raise is addressed
simply enough by requiring a privacy <br>
disclosure be displayed at the time of domain
registration. This <br>
requirement can be incorporated into the ICANN
registry agreements. Note <br>
that this does not resolve the issue for CC domains. <br>
<br>
Michael Hammer <br>
<br>
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Stephanie Perrin <br>
<<a
class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a>
<br>
<a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca></a>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
I certainly agree that if people enter personal
information as part <br>
of their DNS registration or their motor vehicle
licence <br>
registration, it is done with implied consent...
as long as there is <br>
sufficient information to permit them to
understand just how the <br>
data is being used and where it is going.
However, as I tried to <br>
say with respect to registering a domain name, I
really don't think <br>
the average non-expert citizen who might want to
register a domain <br>
name would get enough information to truly
understand how far <br>
his/her information goes, and how difficult it is
to get it removed <br>
once it has appeared in the public record. We
should build this <br>
system so that everyone understands it, not just
the experts. <br>
<br>
cheers Stephanie <br>
<br>
<br>
On 2017-06-01 05:18, jonathan matkowsky wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite"> Stephanie, <br>
<br>
I agree with you that we should not conflate
collection <br>
limitation principles with openness principles.
<br>
<br>
I respectfully disagree with most of what you
wrote in the first <br>
paragraph of your post script. <br>
Here we are talking about users potentially
entering personal or <br>
pseudonymous information when they are not being
asked for it (nor <br>
is it required) to begin with, and it is not
required for purposes <br>
of which it's being collected. That is the <br>
<br>
scope <br>
of what needs to be assessed <br>
if at all and how the scope needs to be <br>
defined from the beginning <br>
if you were to conduct a PIA <br>
. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Personal information is not being used or
intended to be used just <br>
because a person decides to enter personal
information into a field. <br>
<br>
The example of how you can combine databases to
re-identify a <br>
person based on the SOA record is the equivalent
of protecting <br>
domain names as personal information because a
person <br>
can register their driver's license <br>
or name and date of birth <br>
as a domain name. <br>
<br>
I would argue no PIA should be required <br>
as a result <br>
even in accordance even with best practices. <br>
<br>
A PIA needs to be conducted in a manner that is
commensurate with <br>
the level of privacy risk identified <br>
. <br>
<br>
I respectfully disagree with you that thin data
is personal. We <br>
are talking about identifiers (codes or strings
that represent an <br>
individual or device). Many labels can be used
to point to <br>
individuals. Some are precise and most,
imprecise or vague. <br>
There's no question that an IP address is a
device identifier. <br>
Device IDs, MAC addresses can be a source for
user tracking. But <br>
i <br>
dentifiers can be strong or weak depending on
how precise they <br>
are as well as the context. It cannot be
measured without taking <br>
linkability into consideration. For that
reason, name servers are <br>
not the same as IP addresses or MAC addresses
any more so than the <br>
existence of a domain name is an identifier. If
a person chooses <br>
to use identifiable information when it is not
being asked for or <br>
required for purposes of which the data is being
collected, that <br>
does that mean we need to classify all the data
according to that <br>
unlikely scenario. Those setting up their own
DNS would be <br>
relatively speaking, sophisticated Internet
users that presumably <br>
know the basics of how DNS operates in any case,
so by entering <br>
the information in that way, they are choosing
to customize their <br>
DNS in a personal way similar to a person that
chooses to show <br>
personal information on their license plate
number. <br>
<br>
I know that the motor vehicle registry is
restricted now in most <br>
places so that you would need a subpoena to get
that kind of <br>
personal information. This is also true of an IP
address though <br>
and IP providers. The fact is a person can put
their name and date <br>
of birth on a license plate if they want to
customize it. And then <br>
they get on the road. That does not mean the
license plate numbers <br>
are all personal information. It's pseudonymous
data. It is true <br>
that it is a stronger identifier than an IP
address insofar as if <br>
you subpoena the motor vehicle registry
operator, you will get the <br>
personal information behind that license plate
number. If you <br>
subpoena the ISP, you MIGHT get the personal
information depending <br>
on the nature of the IP address. It's still true
that to drive a <br>
car, you need to show your license plate number
on the vehicle. <br>
<br>
I would argue that thin Whois data is
pseudonymous or personal <br>
data to the same extent that a person can choose
to _customize_ a <br>
license plate if they want to, and put personal
or psuedonymous <br>
data into fields <br>
for which the data being collected does not ask
for or require <br>
them to do so. <br>
<br>
<br>
A <br>
person can register their driver's license as a
domain name. <br>
They can use a personal email in their SOA
record, or personal NS. <br>
Just because it's theoretically possible for
someone to enter <br>
pseudonymous (or even personal) data into
multiple databases when <br>
they are not being asked for it, and those
combination of choices <br>
make it possible to identify them, does not mean
one of the sets <br>
(Thin Whois) should be classified as personal
information subject <br>
to a PIA. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Jonathan Matkowsky, <br>
VP – IP & Brand Security <br>
USA:: <a href="tel:%28347%29%20467-1193"
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Website <a
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moz-do-not-send="true"><http://www.riskiq.co.il></a>
<br>
RiskIQ Technologies Ltd. (wholly-owned by
RiskIQ, Inc.) <br>
<br>
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 12:02 AM, Stephanie
Perrin <br>
<<a
class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a>
<br>
<a
class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca></a>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
Your summary today was great Andrew. <br>
<br>
I am not arguing about the disclosure of
thin data. We <br>
already voted on unauthenticated mandatory
disclosure, weeks <br>
ago (or at least it feels like weeks ago).
Lets please move <br>
on. We are debating this yet again, because
people keep <br>
asking, is thin data personal? [lots of
people missed the <br>
last call] The answer is yes (IMHO). Does
that mean it <br>
cannot be disclosed? The answer is no.
Does the <br>
proportionality principle apply? Yes. Have
we already gone <br>
through this? Yes. Can we come back to
it? Yes, but <br>
hopefully only if we have to.....we will
have to when we get <br>
to data elements. <br>
<br>
cheers Stephanie <br>
PS a fundamental problem here is that people
try to categorize <br>
information that in their view should be
disclosed, as not <br>
personal information. This fight has gone
on for years over <br>
IP address, for instance. The important
question is not <br>
actually whether it is personal data or not,
it is "do you <br>
need to disclose it to make things
work?"....and if the answer <br>
is yes then you try to mitigate the
disclosure and try to keep <br>
it minimized to what is absolutely
required. Hence the PIA, <br>
which should employ both data minimization
and the test in the <br>
proportionality principle as techniques to
evaluate data elements. <br>
A good and really simple example is a phone
number. IS it <br>
personal info? (the telcos fought for
years, trying to claim <br>
they owned it and it was not personal).
Obviously it pertains <br>
to you, people feel strongly that it is
personal (culturally <br>
relative of course but...) and yet if noone
ever learns your <br>
number your phone won't ever receive a
call. That does not <br>
mean you have to disclose it
everywhere.....only where <br>
necessary. And it should mean that it does
not have to follow <br>
you everywhere, but that is becoming
increasingly hard to <br>
manage.... <br>
<br>
By the way, informed consent is not the same
as transparency <br>
requirements. Transparency requirements are
exactly <br>
that....you have to be transparent about
what you are doing <br>
with data. Let us not conflate that with
consent. <br>
<br>
I will quit now and stop trying to answer
questions. I would <br>
like to humbly suggest, however, that we
have a real shortage <br>
of basic understanding of how data
protection law works and is <br>
interpreted. If there is a data protection
law expert that <br>
folks might listen to, we should hire that
person to advise <br>
us. It might save a lot of time. <br>
<br>
<br>
On 2017-05-31 16:00, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> Hi, <br>
<br>
On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 03:20:59PM -0400,
Stephanie Perrin wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite"> That does not mean
we need to protect it, it means we have to
examine it in <br>
terms of DP law. May I repeat the
suggestion that Canatacci made in <br>
Copenhagen in response to a
question.....(I forget the precise question he <br>
was asked, sorry). If you want to figure
out whether you have to protect <br>
something or not, do a privacy impact
assessment. <br>
</blockquote>
As I think I've said more than once in
this thread, I think we _have_ <br>
done that assessment and I think the
answers are obvious and I think <br>
therefore that there is nothing more to
say about this principle in <br>
respect of thin data: <br>
<br>
- the data is either necessary for the
operation of the system <br>
itself or else necessary for
distributed operation and <br>
troubleshooting on the Internet. <br>
<br>
- the data does not expose identifying
information about anyone, <br>
except in rather strained examples
where the identifying <br>
information is already completely
available via other means. <br>
<br>
What more is one supposed to do? <br>
<br>
Best regards, <br>
<br>
A <br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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<br>
<pre class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-signature" cols="72">--
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Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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