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    <p>Good question Tom, and I guess we will have to see how the

      providers of services will deal with it. I certainly do not

      remember giving consent in the required form when I joined

      Facebook or was auto-joined to Google Plus...</p>

    <p>VG<br>

    </p>

    <br>

    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 01.06.2017 um 18:17 schrieb Tom

      Lancaster:<br>

    </div>

    <blockquote type="cite"

cite="mid:CAO2t5r4Fre3XoHZ20qPVoWPyNX8ML9tq3_pJ=anMS7AYVfcYhw@mail.gmail.com">

      <div dir="ltr">

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">How do other fields get

            around this? WHOIS data is not the first domain where by

            participating the participant will have to publish a small

            amount of data that could be considered PII for the world to

            see....</span><br>

        </div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">For example, if I create

            pretty much any social media account, my username/profile

            name could be considered PII, and by default it (and likely

            a whole bunch of other data) would be visible to anyone who

            searches for it on that social media platform... How is

            creating a domain different in terms of the privacy

            regulations and public visibility of the data therein?</span></div>

      </div>

      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>

        <div class="gmail_quote">On 1 June 2017 at 17:08, Volker

          Greimann <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a

              href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"

              moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>&gt;</span>

          wrote:<br>

          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0

            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

            <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">

              <p>As it has been brought up by Dotzero in a very reckless

                manner, I feel it is important to point out what

                "consent" actually means in the context of the GDPR:</p>

              <p>First, implied consent is no longer sufficient under

                the current regulation. The GDPR requires that the data

                subject signals agreement to the specific and defined

                use of its data by "a statement or a clear affirmative

                action".</p>

              <p>In other words, an explicit and seperate opt-in is

                required, where the action of providing consent is

                clearly distinguishable from any other matters in a

                written document. This may be ticking a seperate box on

                a website or choosing specific technical settings, but

                in all cases it must be based on an explanation of what

                it is that the data subject is agreeing to. Silence,

                pre-ticked boxes or inactivity is insufficient. Hiding

                the consent clauses in the registration agreement is

                insufficient.<br>

              </p>

              <p>This consent must be "freely given, specific, informed

                and unambiguous."</p>

              <p>Fun stuff comes in the next bit:</p>

              <p><span class="m_-2603083178053328424md">The controller

                  is required to provide “accurate and full information

                  on all relevant issues,” including the nature of the

                  data that will be processed, the purposes of

                  processing, the identity of the controller, and<b> the

                    identity of any other recipients of the data</b>.</span></p>

              <p><span class="m_-2603083178053328424md">I will highlight

                  the salient part again: "ANY OTHER RECIPIENTS OF THE

                  DATA." So no expansion of those with access at a later

                  data, because that would immediately invalidate the

                  consent given.</span></p>

              <p><span class="m_-2603083178053328424md">Finally, this:</span></p>

              <p><span class="m_-2603083178053328424md">"</span><span

                  class="m_-2603083178053328424md">Importantly, a

                  controller may not make a service conditional upon

                  consent, unless the processing is necessary for the

                  service." <br>

                  So no consent can be construed for any uses beyond the

                  functioning of the service, the internet and any other

                  use tied directly to the service. All those nice uses

                  that whois data is currently put to that have nothing

                  to do with the service that is provided to the data

                  subject? Say goodbye to them now!<br>

                </span></p>

              Further reading for those so inclined:<br>

              <a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-freetext"

href="https://iapp.org/news/a/top-10-operational-impacts-of-the-gdpr-part-3-consent/"

                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://iapp.org/news/a/top-<wbr>10-operational-impacts-of-the-<wbr>gdpr-part-3-consent/</a><br>

              <br>

              <span class="m_-2603083178053328424md">Also note that the

                consent provided by current registrant does not satisfy

                the requirements, so what happens with legacy data with

                regard to its import into any RDS system will be a whole

                new nightmare down the road.</span><br>

              <br>

              <div class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-cite-prefix">Am

                01.06.2017 um 17:41 schrieb Michael Peddemors:<br>

              </div>

              <blockquote type="cite">+1 <br>

                <br>

                On 17-06-01 07:47 AM, Dotzero wrote: <br>

                <blockquote type="cite">The issue you raise is addressed

                  simply enough by requiring a privacy <br>

                  disclosure be displayed at the time of domain

                  registration. This <br>

                  requirement can be incorporated into the ICANN

                  registry agreements. Note <br>

                  that this does not resolve the issue for CC domains. <br>

                  <br>

                  Michael Hammer <br>

                  <br>

                  On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Stephanie Perrin <br>

                  &lt;<a

                    class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated"

                    href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"

                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a>

                  <br>

                  <a class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"

                    href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"

                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca&gt;</a>&gt;

                  wrote: <br>

                  <br>

                      I certainly agree that if people enter personal

                  information as part <br>

                      of their DNS registration or their motor vehicle

                  licence <br>

                      registration, it is done with implied consent...

                  as long as there is <br>

                      sufficient information to permit them to

                  understand just how the <br>

                      data is being used and where it is going. 

                  However, as I tried to <br>

                      say with respect to registering a domain name, I

                  really don't think <br>

                      the average non-expert citizen who might want to

                  register a domain <br>

                      name would get enough information to truly

                  understand how far <br>

                      his/her information goes, and how difficult it is

                  to get it removed <br>

                      once it has appeared in the public record.  We

                  should build this <br>

                      system so that everyone understands it, not just

                  the experts. <br>

                  <br>

                      cheers Stephanie <br>

                  <br>

                  <br>

                      On 2017-06-01 05:18, jonathan matkowsky wrote: <br>

                  <blockquote type="cite">    Stephanie, <br>

                    <br>

                        I agree with you that we should not conflate

                    collection <br>

                        limitation principles with openness principles.

                    <br>

                    <br>

                        I respectfully disagree with most of what you

                    wrote in the first <br>

                        paragraph of your post script. <br>

                        Here we are talking about users potentially

                    entering personal or <br>

                        pseudonymous information when they are not being

                    asked for it (nor <br>

                        is it required) to begin with, and it is not

                    required for purposes <br>

                        of which it's being collected. That is the <br>

                    <br>

                        scope <br>

                         of what needs to be assessed <br>

                        if at all and how the scope needs to be <br>

                         defined from the beginning <br>

                         if you were to conduct a PIA <br>

                        . <br>

                          <br>

                    <br>

                         <br>

                          <br>

                        Personal information is not being used or

                    intended to be used just <br>

                        because a person decides to enter personal

                    information into a field. <br>

                         <br>

                        The example of how you can combine databases to

                    re-identify a <br>

                        person based on the SOA record is the equivalent

                    of protecting <br>

                        domain names as personal information because a

                    person <br>

                        can register their driver's license <br>

                         or name and date of birth <br>

                        as a domain name. <br>

                         <br>

                        I would argue no PIA should be required <br>

                        as a result  <br>

                        even in accordance even with best practices. <br>

                         <br>

                        A PIA needs to be conducted in a manner that is

                    commensurate with <br>

                        the level of privacy risk identified <br>

                        . <br>

                    <br>

                        I respectfully disagree with you that thin data

                    is personal. We <br>

                        are talking about identifiers (codes or strings

                    that represent an <br>

                        individual or device).  Many labels can be used

                    to point to <br>

                        individuals. Some are precise and most,

                    imprecise or vague. <br>

                        There's no question that an IP address is a

                    device identifier. <br>

                        Device IDs, MAC addresses can be a source for

                    user tracking.  But <br>

                        i <br>

                        dentifiers can be strong or weak depending on

                    how precise they <br>

                        are as well as the context. It cannot be

                    measured without taking <br>

                        linkability into consideration.  For that

                    reason, name servers are <br>

                        not the same as IP addresses or MAC addresses

                    any more so than the <br>

                        existence of a domain name is an identifier. If

                    a person chooses <br>

                        to use identifiable information when it is not

                    being asked for or <br>

                        required for purposes of which the data is being

                    collected, that <br>

                        does that mean we need to classify all the data

                    according to that <br>

                        unlikely scenario. Those setting up their own

                    DNS would be <br>

                        relatively speaking, sophisticated Internet

                    users that presumably <br>

                        know the basics of how DNS operates in any case,

                    so by entering <br>

                        the information in that way, they are choosing

                    to customize their <br>

                        DNS in a personal way similar to a person that

                    chooses to show <br>

                        personal information on their license plate

                    number. <br>

                    <br>

                        I know that the motor vehicle registry is

                    restricted now in most <br>

                        places so that you would need a subpoena to get

                    that kind of <br>

                        personal information. This is also true of an IP

                    address though <br>

                        and IP providers. The fact is a person can put

                    their name and date <br>

                        of birth on a license plate if they want to

                    customize it. And then <br>

                        they get on the road. That does not mean the

                    license plate numbers <br>

                        are all personal information. It's pseudonymous

                    data. It is true <br>

                        that it is a stronger identifier than an IP

                    address insofar as if <br>

                        you subpoena the motor vehicle registry

                    operator, you will get the <br>

                        personal information behind that license plate

                    number. If you <br>

                        subpoena the ISP, you MIGHT get the personal

                    information depending <br>

                        on the nature of the IP address. It's still true

                    that to drive a <br>

                        car, you need to show your license plate number

                    on the vehicle. <br>

                    <br>

                        I would argue that thin Whois data is

                    pseudonymous or personal <br>

                        data to the same extent that a person can choose

                    to _customize_ a <br>

                        license plate if they want to, and put personal

                    or psuedonymous <br>

                        data into fields <br>

                        for which the data being collected does not ask

                    for or require <br>

                        them to do so. <br>

                         <br>

                    <br>

                        A <br>

                         person can register their driver's license as a

                    domain name. <br>

                        They can use a personal email in their SOA

                    record, or personal NS. <br>

                        Just because it's theoretically possible for

                    someone to enter <br>

                        pseudonymous (or even personal) data into

                    multiple databases when <br>

                        they are not being asked for it, and those

                    combination of choices <br>

                        make it possible to identify them, does not mean

                    one of the sets <br>

                        (Thin Whois) should be classified as personal

                    information subject <br>

                        to a PIA. <br>

                    <br>

                         <br>

                    <br>

                        Jonathan Matkowsky, <br>

                        VP – IP &amp; Brand Security <br>

                        USA:: <a href="tel:%28347%29%20467-1193"

                      value="+13474671193" target="_blank"

                      moz-do-not-send="true">1.347.467.1193</a> <a

                      class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"

                      href="tel:%28347%29%20467-1193" target="_blank"

                      moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;tel:%28347%29%20467-1193&gt;</a>

                    | Office:: <br>

                        <a href="tel:+972%208-926-2766"

                      value="+97289262766" target="_blank"

                      moz-do-not-send="true">+972-(0)8-926-2766</a> <a

class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"

                      href="tel:+972%208-926-2766" target="_blank"

                      moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;tel:+972%208-926-2766&gt;</a>

                    <br>

                        Emergency mobile:: <a

                      href="tel:+972%2054-924-0831"

                      value="+972549240831" target="_blank"

                      moz-do-not-send="true">+972-(0)54-924-0831</a> <a

class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"

                      href="tel:+972%2054-924-0831" target="_blank"

                      moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;tel:+972%2054-924-0831&gt;</a>

                    <br>

                        Company Reg. No. 514805332 <br>

                        11/1 Nachal Chever, Modiin Israel <br>

                        Website <a

                      class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"

                      href="http://www.riskiq.co.il" target="_blank"

                      moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;http://www.riskiq.co.il&gt;</a>

                    <br>

                        RiskIQ Technologies Ltd. (wholly-owned by

                    RiskIQ, Inc.) <br>

                    <br>

                        On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 12:02 AM, Stephanie

                    Perrin <br>

                        &lt;<a

                      class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-abbreviated"

                      href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"

                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a>

                    <br>

                        <a

                      class="m_-2603083178053328424moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"

                      href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"

                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca&gt;</a>&gt;

                    wrote: <br>

                    <br>

                            Your summary today was great Andrew. <br>

                    <br>

                            I am not arguing about the disclosure of

                    thin data.  We <br>

                            already voted on unauthenticated mandatory

                    disclosure, weeks <br>

                            ago (or at least it feels like weeks ago). 

                    Lets please move <br>

                            on.  We are debating this yet again, because

                    people keep <br>

                            asking, is thin data personal?  [lots of

                    people missed the <br>

                            last call]  The answer is yes (IMHO).  Does

                    that mean it <br>

                            cannot be disclosed?  The answer is no. 

                    Does the <br>

                            proportionality principle apply?  Yes.  Have

                    we already gone <br>

                            through this?  Yes.  Can we come back to

                    it?  Yes, but <br>

                            hopefully only if we have to.....we will

                    have to when we get <br>

                            to data elements. <br>

                    <br>

                            cheers Stephanie <br>

                            PS a fundamental problem here is that people

                    try to categorize <br>

                            information that in their view should be

                    disclosed, as not <br>

                            personal information.  This fight has gone

                    on for years over <br>

                            IP address, for instance.  The important

                    question is not <br>

                            actually whether it is personal data or not,

                    it is "do you <br>

                            need to disclose it to make things

                    work?"....and if the answer <br>

                            is yes then you try to mitigate the

                    disclosure and try to keep <br>

                            it minimized to what is absolutely

                    required.  Hence the PIA, <br>

                            which should employ both data minimization

                    and the test in the <br>

                            proportionality principle as techniques to

                    evaluate data elements. <br>

                            A good and really simple example is a phone

                    number.  IS it <br>

                            personal info?  (the telcos fought for

                    years, trying to claim <br>

                            they owned it and it was not personal). 

                    Obviously it pertains <br>

                            to you, people feel strongly that it is

                    personal (culturally <br>

                            relative of course but...) and yet if noone

                    ever learns your <br>

                            number your phone won't ever receive a

                    call.  That does not <br>

                            mean you have to disclose it

                    everywhere.....only where <br>

                            necessary.  And it should mean that it does

                    not have to follow <br>

                            you everywhere, but that is becoming

                    increasingly hard to <br>

                            manage.... <br>

                    <br>

                            By the way, informed consent is not the same

                    as transparency <br>

                            requirements.  Transparency requirements are

                    exactly <br>

                            that....you have to be transparent about

                    what you are doing <br>

                            with data.  Let us not conflate that with

                    consent. <br>

                    <br>

                            I will quit now and stop trying to answer

                    questions.  I would <br>

                            like to humbly suggest, however, that we

                    have a real shortage <br>

                            of basic understanding of how data

                    protection law works and is <br>

                            interpreted.  If there is a data protection

                    law expert that <br>

                            folks might listen to, we should hire that

                    person to advise <br>

                            us.  It might save a lot of time. <br>

                    <br>

                    <br>

                            On 2017-05-31 16:00, Andrew Sullivan wrote:

                    <br>

                    <blockquote type="cite">        Hi, <br>

                      <br>

                              On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 03:20:59PM -0400,

                      Stephanie Perrin wrote: <br>

                      <blockquote type="cite">        That does not mean

                        we need to protect it, it means we have to

                        examine it in <br>

                                terms of DP law.  May I repeat the

                        suggestion that Canatacci made in <br>

                                Copenhagen in response to a

                        question.....(I forget the precise question he <br>

                                was asked, sorry). If you want to figure

                        out whether you have to protect <br>

                                something or not, do a privacy impact

                        assessment. <br>

                      </blockquote>

                              As I think I've said more than once in

                      this thread, I think we _have_ <br>

                              done that assessment and I think the

                      answers are obvious and I think <br>

                              therefore that there is nothing more to

                      say about this principle in <br>

                              respect of thin data: <br>

                      <br>

                                  - the data is either necessary for the

                      operation of the system <br>

                                    itself or else necessary for

                      distributed operation and <br>

                                    troubleshooting on the Internet. <br>

                      <br>

                                  - the data does not expose identifying

                      information about anyone, <br>

                                    except in rather strained examples

                      where the identifying <br>

                                    information is already completely

                      available via other means. <br>

                      <br>

                              What more is one supposed to do? <br>

                      <br>

                              Best regards, <br>

                      <br>

                              A <br>

                      <br>

                    </blockquote>

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              <br>

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- Rechtsabteilung -

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</pre>

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    <br>

    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 