<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Which is why its past time to get third-party independent legal advice instead of relying on activists and those with economic conflicts of interest telling us what is compliant. <br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jun 1, 2017, at 04:21, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>Well, if whatever we develop is not in compliance with privacy
laws, we are all wasting our time and working for the wastepaper
basket. Anything we develop must be compliant or it will be
unimplementable...<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.05.2017 um 22:26 schrieb Chen,
Tim:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CA+dThxfDRnx501Tjver1tDzpy+SqFFvn9GeeT0vUSk9CyTDYHQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">I am compelled to point out that making sure ICANN
is compliant with privacy laws is not "the purpose of this WG".
And I believe statements like that, which I hope and believe was
made in brevity and not in fact, contribute to the belief shared
by some here that others have distressingly myopic viewpoints as
to what the outcome of all this work is meant to be. We are
trying to solve a complex equation [sidebar, this thin whois
piece should not be the hard part] not simply protect ICANN from
the broad category of 'privacy laws' despite that being an
important consideration.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marika has been very clear in repeatedly pointing all of us
to the original charter docs. This is how she (not me)
summarized it weeks ago:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="gmail-m_-3078164885463148225MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol">·<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">What are the
fundamental requirements for gTLD registration data? When
addressing this question, the PDP WG should consider, at a
minimum, users and purposes and associated access,
accuracy, data element, and privacy requirements.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3078164885463148225MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol">·<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">Is a new policy
framework and next-generation RDS needed to address these
requirements?</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3078164885463148225MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
1in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Courier New"">o<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">If yes, what
cross-cutting requirements must a next-generation RDS
address, including coexistence, compliance, system model,
and cost, benefit, and risk analysis requirements?</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3078164885463148225MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
1in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Courier New"">o<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">If no, does the
current WHOIS policy framework sufficiently address these
requirements? If not, what revisions are recommended to
the current WHOIS policy framework to do so?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 12:01 PM,
nathalie coupet via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496232851554_414957" dir="ltr"><span id="m_-4668158133892165091yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496232851554_414982">Benefits:
making sure ICANN is in compliance with privacy
laws. Isn't it the purpose of this WG? Issues
pertaining to cost and protection of IP address I
will leave other to answer. But it seems to me that
pseudonimization, randomization and encryption could
be candidate solutions. </span></div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496232851554_414955"><br>
</div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496232851554_414953"> </div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091signature" id="m_-4668158133892165091yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1496232851554_414926">Nathalie </div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yahoo_quoted" style="display:block">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> On
Wednesday, May 31, 2017 2:48 PM, John Bambenek
via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</font></div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091y_msg_container">
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472">
<div>
<div>This applies a web interface... would
an API be exposed for those of us who use
the command-line? Would there be a central
point of query or would a consumer have to
google it? Who pays for constructing such
a system and what is the commensurate
return on the investment for them paying
to make all this? If you are asking for
this information, surely you are also
getting source data (for instance consumer
IP, which can be PII), how will all that
be protected?</div>
<div>There is a whole lot of complexity, in
general, and costs for
registries/registrars, specifically. What
problem does this solve that it makes
sense to engineer a solution for it?<br clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472yqt6697870565" id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472yqtfd98173">
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472moz-cite-prefix">On
5/31/2017 1:40 PM, nathalie coupet via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472yqt6697870565" id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472yqtfd07002">
<div>
<div>Hi Chuck,</div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature">My
position was and is to secure
unauthenticated access to thin data for
all. </div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature">I
envisioned access to RDS through 3 chock
points to weed out bad actors as much as
possible: </div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature">An
end-user would need to check the first
box for authenticated/unauthenticated
access, then another box for consumer
and a third would be to select the
purpose or a default purpose would be
selected for him (maybe no purpose could
also be possible). </div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature">Consumers
don't need all the thin data to be
published for their simple queries,
since - in my mind - they want to make
sure the website is legitimate or they
want to identify the author in case of
abuse (such as defamation, abuse or
threats). </div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature">If
the principle of proportionality doesn't
apply to most other cases, that's fine.
But I think it does apply for simple
consumer queries. </div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature">This
is an interesting debate, but I never
thought it would lead to people actually
proposing to drop vital data for the
functioning of the Internet.</div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature">I
had in mind the other principle that you
do not volunteer data when it is not
required. It should be useful. Not
because it is PPI, but out of caution.</div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none">
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br clear="none">
On May 31, 2017, at 2:21 PM, Gomes,
Chuck <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">cgomes@verisign.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div> </div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472WordSection1">
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472MsoNormal">Nathalie,</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472MsoNormal">
</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472MsoNormal">Thank
you for your suggestion that the
principle of proportionality be
added. That has generated a very
lively discussion.</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472MsoNormal">
</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472MsoNormal">As
I am sure you have seen, a lot of WG
members have stated that they do not
believe that the principle of
proportionality applies to thin data
and have provided what I think is
pretty good rationale in support of
their position. As the originator of
the suggestion, do you still maintain
that the principle applies to thin
data? If so, how would you counter
the arguments that have been made to
the contrary?</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472MsoNormal">
</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472MsoNormal">All
– If anyone else thinks that the
principle of proportionality applies
to think data, please speak up and
provide your counters to the arguments
that have been made to the contrary.</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472MsoNormal">
</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472MsoNormal">Chuck</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<fieldset class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br clear="none">
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="m_-4668158133892165091yiv7219839472moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="m_-4668158133892165091yqt6697870565" id="m_-4668158133892165091yqtfd49125">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br clear="none">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>