<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Sorry, maybe this should be obvious to me, but which specific obligation should not be there in the first place relating to the work we are doing? Is it that you're concerned mostly with renewals and having to give notice under applicable law related to privacy for customers who already have registrations? I can see that process causing more concern, as it would be fairly easy to design opt-in consent in plain language that explains to a user the consequences of their choices in deciding whether to use privacy/proxy or make personal information public (and the extent to which it is public) for newly registered domains, etc. </span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Jonathan Matkowsky</span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Not at all, I just do not want any more binding obligations that
knowingly conflict with applicable law that we will have to
renegotiate for ages to get out of when these obligations should
not be there in the first place.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.06.2017 um 13:54 schrieb John
Bambenek:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>It sounds like you want a contract the only gives you
benefits and externalizes the risks and harm to everyone else. <br>
<br>
--
<div>John Bambenek</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:45, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p>Hi Jonathan,</p>
<p>we went through a very extended and painful exercise once
before with regard to obtaining a waiver from a contractual
requirement set by ICANN that conflicted with local law once
before. In that case, the option of such a waiver and the
general process had been included in the process, yet it
still proved incredibly difficult to complete despite
ticking all the boxes of the requirements. We do not care
for such an experience ever again. <br>
</p>
<p>Therefore contracted parties have a vested interest in
avoiding such conflicts in the first place with any new
policy. If such conflicts exists, the policy needs to take
them into account fully and the process needs to be turned
around. Contracted parties should not have to obtain a
waiver to avoid having to comply with a contractual
requirement but rather the obligation should only apply if
no conflict exists for that party. <br>
</p>
<p>We have learned from painful experiences in the past. <br>
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.06.2017 um 13:38 schrieb
jonathan matkowsky:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">Volker,
can you please describe this main issue as you see it in
more detail?</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><i>"The
main issue is that ICANN has no working process in
place for a contracted party to show it has an issue
with local laws that can be reasonably invoked
before getting called on it by local authorities,
e.g. being sued or fined. So we need the excemptions
baked into the policy to be safe down the road."</i></span><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="m_-5034880085994306367gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Jonathan Matkowsky</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:10
PM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
Am 02.06.2017 um 18:17 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 07:00:23PM +0300, jonathan
matkowsky wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> "3.7.2 Registrar shall
abide by applicable laws and governmental<br>
regulations." Applicable laws vary from
jurisdiction to jurisdiction.<br>
We should keep this in mind.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
Yes. Also, I don't know why we have to have an
opinion on what<br>
registrars or registries must do overall. What we
need to do, as far<br>
as I can tell, is understand what the data is and
what it is collected<br>
for, and then propose a policy that makes it
_possible_ for registrars<br>
and registries to conform with their local laws.
No?<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote>
<span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0)"> The
main issue is that ICANN has no working process in
place for a contracted party to show it has an
issue with local laws that can be reasonably
invoked before getting called on it by local
authorities, e.g. being sued or fined. So we need
the excemptions baked into the policy to be safe
down the road.</span><br>
<br>
"Just deal with that on your own later!" is not an
acceptable result.<br>
<br>
As a non-European leader recently put it: "No deal
is better than a bad deal!"<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Volker<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
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------------------------------<wbr>--------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
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V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
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</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br>
<span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</span><br>
<span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br>
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</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
------------------------------<wbr>--------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-5034880085994306367moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>