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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACLR7wLRvp_1AAGZoWTvRHVfUSsO6Z47BRm=PjSfGDo8xeA25Q@mail.gmail.com">
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<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">>></span><span
style="font-size:12.8px">Just answer me on this why should
they be allowed a non contractual use of the data, and not
all Security are white hats which only do good</span></div>
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</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Data can be used for good
and evil. I am sure the data is being used for some sort of
evil. Just because someone has devised a malicious use for
something doesn't mean that it should be shut down for
everyone. There's a balance of benefits and harms here, and
right now the benefits outweigh the harms by far. Any
analysis of the total harms caused by whois, versus the
harms prevented using whois will be far in favor of the
latter.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Granted, however if there is a way to limit the access of evildoers
while still allowing those without ill intent reasonable access,
should we not explore such a way preferentially? The more we can
shift the balance away from abusive potential and towards positive
use, the better.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACLR7wLRvp_1AAGZoWTvRHVfUSsO6Z47BRm=PjSfGDo8xeA25Q@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 1:01 PM, <a
href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se" moz-do-not-send="true">benny@nordreg.se</a>
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">benny@nordreg.se</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span
class=""><br>
<br>
> On 6 Jun 2017, at 18:51, allison nixon <<a
href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> >>You state that Public whois are important so
people can check if there personal info are used for
registration of domains, but can’t the same public data be
the source for the data being abused for registrations?<br>
><br>
</span><span class="">> You are inventing an imaginary
edge case as a rebuttal to evidence based observations
that we have made in the course of our work.<br>
<br>
</span>Well I see different, where data in whois combined
with other sources are used for different kind of scams.<br>
<span class=""><br>
<br>
><br>
> >>Anti Abuse are important no one disagree on
that, what I just don’t get are why you and others can’t
come up with an idea of how we can make a better solution
than today which benefits all sides, instead of fighting
for Status Quo.<br>
><br>
> The status quo is actually really good. We can do our
work without viewing people's ACTUAL private data, like
their billing info or personal internet traffic from their
ISP. And we can do our work without any government
coercion to force people to disclose anything. I don't see
why there is such a desire to disrupt this balance. It is
only downhill from here.<br>
<br>
</span>Sure I understand free and unlimited access are nice
to have…<br>
<span class=""><br>
><br>
> >>What business is it of ours how a registrant
uses a domain name<br>
><br>
> This is the exact same argument used by bullet proof
hosters, but the cops never buy it. I'm not saying you
are, but I'm saying that this argument has never been
regarded as a valid defense when open and rampant abuse is
happening among one's customer base.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span>Not a part of my comment and dont belong here when
you reply to my post…<br>
<span class=""><br>
<br>
><br>
> >>Well Registrars and Registries have
contractual obligations on how data shall be handled and I
don’t see why anti abuse and others handling those data
elements shall be allowed to freely use these data in a
non controlled manner were there are no contractual
obligations.<br>
><br>
> You do understand that the security industry is more
than willing to pay for bulk, unrestricted access to this
data, right?<br>
<br>
</span>Just answer me on this why should they be allowed a
non contractual use of the data, and not all Security are
white hats which only do good<br>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:59 AM, <a
href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se" moz-do-not-send="true">benny@nordreg.se</a>
<<a href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se"
moz-do-not-send="true">benny@nordreg.se</a>> wrote:<br>
> You state that Public whois are important so people
can check if there personal info are used for
registration of domains, but can’t the same public data
be the source for the data being abused for
registrations?<br>
> --<br>
> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig
hilsen<br>
><br>
> Benny Samuelsen<br>
> Registry Manager - Domainexpert<br>
><br>
> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar<br>
> IANA-ID: 638<br>
> Phone: <a href="tel:%2B46.42197000"
value="+4642197000" moz-do-not-send="true">+46.42197000</a><br>
> Direct: <a href="tel:%2B47.32260201"
value="+4732260201" moz-do-not-send="true">+47.32260201</a><br>
> Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B47.40410200"
value="+4740410200" moz-do-not-send="true">+47.40410200</a><br>
><br>
> > On 6 Jun 2017, at 17:53, jonathan matkowsky
<<a href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net</a><wbr>>
wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > What do you mean?<br>
> ><br>
> > Jonathan Matkowsky<br>
> ><br>
> > On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 6:39 PM, <a
href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se" moz-do-not-send="true">benny@nordreg.se</a>
<<a href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se"
moz-do-not-send="true">benny@nordreg.se</a>> wrote:<br>
> > And you can by that say with a 100 % certainty
that those abused data was not originating from whois it
self?<br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> > Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med
vennlig hilsen<br>
> ><br>
> > Benny Samuelsen<br>
> > Registry Manager - Domainexpert<br>
> ><br>
> > Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar<br>
> > IANA-ID: 638<br>
> > Phone: <a href="tel:%2B46.42197000"
value="+4642197000" moz-do-not-send="true">+46.42197000</a><br>
> > Direct: <a href="tel:%2B47.32260201"
value="+4732260201" moz-do-not-send="true">+47.32260201</a><br>
> > Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B47.40410200"
value="+4740410200" moz-do-not-send="true">+47.40410200</a><br>
> ><br>
> > > On 6 Jun 2017, at 16:54, jonathan
matkowsky <<a
href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net</a><wbr>>
wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Abusive domains are also seriously
problematic from a privacy standpoint because apart from
fake credentials as Natale mentions below, I can't begin
to tell you how many cases I've seen in the last several
years where innocent peoples' identities are compromised
and then used in the Whois as part of the abuse. Without
access to the public Whois, they never would have known
their identity had been stolen. Access to Whois for
abusive domains actually serves to protect privacy
interests.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Jonathan Matkowsky<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Natale
Maria Bianchi <<a href="mailto:nmb@spamhaus.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nmb@spamhaus.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > > Besides private and business domains,
there is also the large category of<br>
> > > abusive domains - domains registered (or
acquired from a previous owner)<br>
> > > for the only purpose of abusing the
Internet. One may perhaps categorize<br>
> > > them as "business", but it does not make
much sense to put them together<br>
> > > with domains used legitimately, or worry
much about privacy issues -<br>
> > > those are typically registered giving
fake credentials, or the<br>
> > > credentials are hidden from the public
through an anonymous registration,<br>
> > > and no one will every file a privacy
complaint about those.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > There are operations out there that do
this on a massive, industrial scale,<br>
> > > registering hundreds or thousands of
domains per day that are going to be<br>
> > > used for a very short time, even a few
minutes in the most extreme cases<br>
> > > (hailstorm spammers). In these cases,
literally every second after<br>
> > > registration matters, and whois is
therefore a very critical resource for<br>
> > > abuse researchers. This is why I and
others are here.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Due to the automated methods used for
these registrations and the<br>
> > > consequent correlations between them, it
is quite common to be able to<br>
> > > indeed distinguish this category of
domains with "sufficient accuracy"<br>
> > > once whois data have been retrieved.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > So please think in terms of three de
facto categories rather than two:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > * legitimate, private<br>
> > > * legitimate, business<br>
> > > * abusive<br>
> > ><br>
> > > I am not suggesting that one puts the
third category in ICANN<br>
> > > agreements :) I am merely reminding that
looking for abusive domains<br>
> > > is a very important operational aspect of
thin and thick whois, and<br>
> > > care should be taken not to throw this
other baby away with<br>
> > > the baby water.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Natale Maria Bianchi<br>
> > > Spamhaus Project<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 11:24:10AM +0200,
Volker Greimann wrote:<br>
> > > > If you can differentiate the use
that a domain isgoing to be put to<br>
> > > > at the time of registration with
sufficient accuracy, you are due<br>
> > > > for an an award ;-)<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Am 02.06.2017 um 22:15 schrieb
Dotzero:<br>
> > > > >The overwhelming majority of
domains registered would be<br>
> > > > >considered for commercial
purposes. The fact that a small<br>
> > > > >percentage of domains are
registered by individuals for personal<br>
> > > > >use should not be the
determining factor as to what is appropriate<br>
> > > > >for ICANN to do. In fact, many
of what people assert are personal<br>
> > > > >domains have advertising on them
and would therefor be considered<br>
> > > > >by almost any jurisdiction to be
engaged in a commercial activity.<br>
> > > > >This includes many (most?)
parked domains.<br>
> > > > [...]<br>
> > ><br>
> > > ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> > > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
> > > <a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
> > > <a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
> > ><br>
> > > ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> > > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
> > > <a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
> > > <a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
> <a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ______________________________<wbr>___<br>
> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.<br>
<br>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
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</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________<br>
Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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