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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">As we develop requirements and policies we will always have to do so with the recognition that laws will change and that they will vary by jurisdiction so any recommendations
we make will have to be flexible enough to deal with those two factors, as the EWG recommended.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>allison nixon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 06, 2017 9:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] What registrars must do (was Re: The principle for thin data)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So one day if a country passes a law requiring whois disclosure we are right back to square 1. Unless ICANN stops being an international organization, we are going to continue to have the legal conflict.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sounds like this waiver process should be created<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jun 6, 2017 7:56 AM, "Volker Greimann" <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Not at all, I just do not want any more binding obligations that knowingly conflict with applicable law that we will have to renegotiate for ages to get out of when these obligations should not be there in the first place.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 06.06.2017 um 13:54 schrieb John Bambenek:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal">It sounds like you want a contract the only gives you benefits and externalizes the risks and harm to everyone else. <br>
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John Bambenek<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:45, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>Hi Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>we went through a very extended and painful exercise once before with regard to obtaining a waiver from a contractual requirement set by ICANN that conflicted with local law once before. In that case, the option of such a waiver and the general process had
been included in the process, yet it still proved incredibly difficult to complete despite ticking all the boxes of the requirements. We do not care for such an experience ever again.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Therefore contracted parties have a vested interest in avoiding such conflicts in the first place with any new policy. If such conflicts exists, the policy needs to take them into account fully and the process needs to be turned around. Contracted parties
should not have to obtain a waiver to avoid having to comply with a contractual requirement but rather the obligation should only apply if no conflict exists for that party.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>We have learned from painful experiences in the past. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Volker<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 06.06.2017 um 13:38 schrieb jonathan matkowsky:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Volker, can you please describe this main issue as you see it in more detail?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"The main issue is that ICANN has no working process in place for a contracted party to show it has an issue with local laws that can be reasonably invoked before getting called
on it by local authorities, e.g. being sued or fined. So we need the excemptions baked into the policy to be safe down the road."</span></i><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jonathan Matkowsky<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
Am 02.06.2017 um 18:17 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 07:00:23PM +0300, jonathan matkowsky wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">"3.7.2 Registrar shall abide by applicable laws and governmental<br>
regulations." Applicable laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.<br>
We should keep this in mind.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes. Also, I don't know why we have to have an opinion on what<br>
registrars or registries must do overall. What we need to do, as far<br>
as I can tell, is understand what the data is and what it is collected<br>
for, and then propose a policy that makes it _possible_ for registrars<br>
and registries to conform with their local laws. No?<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:yellow">The main issue is that ICANN has no working process in place for a contracted party to show it has an issue with local laws that can be reasonably invoked before getting called on it by local authorities,
e.g. being sued or fined. So we need the excemptions baked into the policy to be safe down the road.</span><br>
<br>
"Just deal with that on your own later!" is not an acceptable result.<br>
<br>
As a non-European leader recently put it: "No deal is better than a bad deal!"<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Volker<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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