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<p>Hi Jonathan,</p>
<p>and I have no issue with the public being able to get that
information. Still, there is no reason why the requester should
not authenticate himself when making that inquiry. Remember the
access levels do not block access, they just require further
authentification. So the public would be able to find out when a
domain is expected to become available. This is no argument
against gated access.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 07.06.2017 um 11:23 schrieb jonathan
matkowsky:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALsyHBkZtLeHbxJXFSe4X=kfZ4jtKy+33wLnn443UhLY2j9eMw@mail.gmail.com">
<div>The public has the right to know when a domain is expected to
become available. They might need to place a backorder. All
UDRPs require the provider to check whether the domain is set to
expire during the proceeding. The fake renewal notices and SEO
scams will continue based on the existence of the domain. I have
seen countless such scams where the domain is not set to expire
for years, and where it wasn't even recently created--which
supports keeping the creation and expiration dates ungated so
that companies can verify that the scams are not bona fide.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 at 11:54 Volker Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> It is remarkable how
much of the spam that we see on a regular basis that is
tied to the domain lifecycle. Fake renewal notices, SEO
offers, the lot. <br>
Anything that would reduce this is a basis for restricting
access somewhat. I do not really see any harm in such
restrictions either.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Volker</div>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><br>
<br>
<div class="m_1381224760868507598moz-cite-prefix">Am
07.06.2017 um 10:27 schrieb jonathan matkowsky:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>There is no basis for restricting ungated access
any more so than the domain's existence or the string
of characters registered.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 at 11:22 Volker Greimann
<<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I
have no objections against having this data
available and accessible.<br>
The question is whether it should be as accessible
as it is now or<br>
whether there could be certain restrictions. A
tiered access system as<br>
has been proposed would solve this beautifully.<br>
<br>
In this case, the dates would be on the second
tier (the first tier<br>
being full unhindered access), which would entail
some form of<br>
authentification and bulk access restrictions.
Every single one of the<br>
uses Andrew desribes would remain possible and
unproblematic, but the<br>
data would no longer be in as much danger of being
abused as it is today.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 06.06.2017 um 22:07 schrieb Michael Peddemors:<br>
> +1 as well..<br>
><br>
> .. but with so many +1's on having that data
publicly accessible, it<br>
> would be interesting to take a straw poll, to
a wider audience on that<br>
> simple question..<br>
><br>
> It would be also nice to see what category
the parties in each camp<br>
> lie? We know that everyone involved in making
the internet a safer and<br>
> better place (security companies, law
enforcement et al) want it<br>
> available, and to define 'thin data' as wide
as possible, and I can<br>
> understand that some consideration to privacy
be considered so that it<br>
> doesn't go too wide, but not really certain I
understand the position<br>
> of those that want it as 'thin' as possible,
or non-existant, and/or<br>
> the parties behind that position and their
numbers.<br>
><br>
> And of course the ever present question for
both camps, is the opinion<br>
> coming from a place where there are financial
motivations (not that<br>
> necessarily there is anything wrong with that
<sic>) that have formed<br>
> the basis of that opinion. (eg, if the money
equation was removed,<br>
> would you still have that opinion, or even be
in the conversation?)<br>
><br>
> For all we know, the privacy camp are in very
small numbers in this<br>
> conversation, and while they might hold
legitimate positions, maybe it<br>
> isn't enough to affect the
directions/positions of ICANN as a group<br>
> going forward.<br>
><br>
> And IMHO, even if it was 50/50 split, if it
came down to two camps, eg<br>
> 'the ones keeping us safe' and 'it
affects/risks our pocketbooks', I<br>
> would err on policies that would aid the
former..<br>
><br>
> Don't want 'politics' to affect such
important decisions..<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 17-06-06 11:22 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:<br>
>> Hi,<br>
>><br>
>> On the call today there were arguments
being made about why certain<br>
>> fields should not be publicly
accessible. In effect, what we are now<br>
>> arguing about, in talking about what
should be considered "thin data",<br>
>> is the definition of the set of data to
which unauthenticated access<br>
>> should be permitted. (Let us please not
get distracted by what is<br>
>> actually required by the RAA or anything
like that just now, since the<br>
>> outcome of this policy discussion might
change that.)<br>
>><br>
>> There were several arguments put forth
about whether the created on,<br>
>> updated on, and expiry dates should be
included. Similarly, people<br>
>> discussed whether the domain status
values should be included. I<br>
>> believe they must be.<br>
>><br>
>> The Internet is unlike many other
technologies because of its radical<br>
>> decentralization. That is not some sort
of political choice, but<br>
>> instead a fundamental part of the design
of the Internet: it's a<br>
>> network of networks (of networks…) formed
by voluntary interoperation<br>
>> among the participants. Participants in
the Internet interoperate<br>
>> without setting up formal contractual
arrangements between all the<br>
>> participating parties. This feature is
part of what has made the<br>
>> Internet so successful compared to other
telecommunications systems,<br>
>> because the barrier to entry is really
low. But that design comes at<br>
>> a cost.<br>
>><br>
>> The cost is that there's not always a
party to speak to, with whom one<br>
>> has a pre-existing relationship. If
communications break down between<br>
>> two telephone customers, they know whom
to call: the phone company.<br>
>> The phone company also has contractual
(or sometimes treaty)<br>
>> relationships to other phone companies.<br>
>><br>
>> The Internet doesn't work that way. If
you and I are communicating<br>
>> over the Internet, there is no guarantee
of direct contractual<br>
>> relationships all the way along the
transit path: that's what open<br>
>> peering policies ensure. The way we make
this work in fact is by<br>
>> placing the responsibility for
troubleshooting out at the edges. And<br>
>> because of that, when I need to
troubleshoot my site I need to have<br>
>> tools with which to do that.<br>
>><br>
>> In domain-based communications (such as
email, IP telephony, websites,<br>
>> money transfer, and thousands of other
applications), when I encounter<br>
>> a problem with the communication I need
to answer whether the problem<br>
>> is in _my_ network operation, or in the
other end. Important data to<br>
>> rule out "the other end" is in the thin
RDS data.<br>
>><br>
>> Obviously, the nameserver and DNSSEC
information in the RDS will allow<br>
>> me to tell whether what is in the global
DNS is what ought to be<br>
>> there. For instance, if the RDS has one
value for the name servers,<br>
>> but the DNS returns something else, there
is a problem.<br>
>><br>
>> Less obvious but just as important are
the status values. If a name<br>
>> is on Hold or is pendingTransfer or
something like that, it can tell<br>
>> me that something is up. A name that
doesn't appear in the DNS but<br>
>> has a full complement of name servers in
the RDS, for example, might<br>
>> be on hold; and I can't tell that without
seeing the status values.<br>
>><br>
>> In the same way, the dates in the RDS
allow a troubleshooter to<br>
>> understand what might be wrong when
things are broken. If a name is<br>
>> set to expire in a day and you're getting
a parking page on the<br>
>> website, you have a clue about what is
going on. Most of the examples<br>
>> cited in<br>
>> <a
href="https://whoapi.com/blog/1582/5-all-time-domain-expirations-in-internets-history/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://whoapi.com/blog/1582/5-all-time-domain-expirations-in-internets-history/</a><br>
>><br>
>> were trivial to understand for help desks
that could see that a name<br>
>> that should have existed for some time
was just hours old, because the<br>
>> created_on date was available. And if
you start having trouble and<br>
>> see a domain was updated about the same
time the trouble started, you<br>
>> have a pretty good clue that the problem
is most likely at the target<br>
>> domain, and not in your own network.<br>
>><br>
>> As for the question of why the global
Internet infrastructure needs to<br>
>> help with this, the answer is that
_that's what the infrastructure is<br>
>> for_. We have registrars and registries
in order to co-ordinate these<br>
>> assignments and make those assignments
available, in support of the<br>
>> distributed administration and operation
of the Internet. If the<br>
>> infrastructure isn't providing this kind
of information in order to<br>
>> help administrators of various Internet
administrators, then it isn't<br>
>> doing its job.<br>
>><br>
>> The Internet is a distributed system. If
you want to make distributed<br>
>> systems work, you have to allow the
operators to have enough<br>
>> information to do their jobs
independently of one another. So,<br>
>> regardless of where one lands on whether
any of this data is personal<br>
>> data, it makes no difference. If you
want the domain name system to<br>
>> continue to work reliably, you have to
publish this data.<br>
>> Centralization and locking the data up
for just registrars simply<br>
>> won't scale.<br>
>><br>
>> Best regards,<br>
>><br>
>> A<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
--<br>
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur
Verfügung.<br>
<br>
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br>
<br>
Volker A. Greimann<br>
- Rechtsabteilung -<br>
<br>
Key-Systems GmbH<br>
Im Oberen Werk 1<br>
66386 St. Ingbert<br>
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<br>
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<br>
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--------------------------------------------<br>
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<br>
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66386 St. Ingbert<br>
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<br>
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</div>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
</div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">jonathan
matkowsky, vp - ip & head of global brand threat
mitigation</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_1381224760868507598moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
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This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-- <br>
</div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">jonathan matkowsky, vp - ip
& head of global brand threat mitigation</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
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