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<p>Authentification does not necessariliy mean restriction. There
are many means of authentification options that we may chose for
this data that do not restrict in the least bit who can access
this data. It only places a barrier of how easily this may be
accessed, unless we decide differently down the road. As we can
have multiple access tiers, this is both practical and sensible.
In this case your argument does not cut bread. <br>
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 07.06.2017 um 13:08 schrieb jonathan
matkowsky:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALsyHBnY7t=XT7uC-b6AFPre2ucnZDmRBLnLoS7f4DG=J0xGmQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">Volker,
you said that spam tied to the lifecycle of a domain with fake
renewals and SEO notices was a basis for restricting access. I
was pointing out that not only isn't it a basis for doing so,
it is actually prevents the public from being able to avoid
being scammed. Then you said you see no harm in such
restrictions in any event. And I was pointing out that there
is in fact harm. The harm is that authentication requires
private information to be disclosed. And that should not be
done unless there is a good reason for doing so. And there is
none, as per above.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Jonathan Matkowsky,<br>
VP – IP & Brand Security<br>
USA:: 1.347.467.1193 | Office:: +972-(0)8-926-2766<br>
Emergency mobile:: +972-(0)54-924-0831<br>
Company Reg. No. 514805332 <br>
11/1 Nachal Chever, Modiin Israel<br>
<a href="http://www.riskiq.co.il" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Website</a><br>
RiskIQ Technologies Ltd. (wholly-owned by RiskIQ,
Inc.)</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 12:30 PM,
Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi Jonathan,</p>
<p>and I have no issue with the public being able to get
that information. Still, there is no reason why the
requester should not authenticate himself when making
that inquiry. Remember the access levels do not block
access, they just require further authentification. So
the public would be able to find out when a domain is
expected to become available. This is no argument
against gated access.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-cite-prefix">Am
07.06.2017 um 11:23 schrieb jonathan matkowsky:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>The public has the right to know when a domain is
expected to become available. They might need to
place a backorder. All UDRPs require the provider to
check whether the domain is set to expire during the
proceeding. The fake renewal notices and SEO scams
will continue based on the existence of the domain.
I have seen countless such scams where the domain is
not set to expire for years, and where it wasn't
even recently created--which supports keeping the
creation and expiration dates ungated so that
companies can verify that the scams are not bona
fide.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 at 11:54 Volker Greimann
<<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> It is remarkable how
much of the spam that we see on a regular
basis that is tied to the domain lifecycle.
Fake renewal notices, SEO offers, the lot. <br>
Anything that would reduce this is a basis for
restricting access somewhat. I do not really
see any harm in such restrictions either.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Volker</div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148m_1381224760868507598moz-cite-prefix">Am
07.06.2017 um 10:27 schrieb jonathan
matkowsky:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>There is no basis for restricting
ungated access any more so than the
domain's existence or the string of
characters registered.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 at 11:22 Volker
Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I
have no objections against having this
data available and accessible.<br>
The question is whether it should be
as accessible as it is now or<br>
whether there could be certain
restrictions. A tiered access system
as<br>
has been proposed would solve this
beautifully.<br>
<br>
In this case, the dates would be on
the second tier (the first tier<br>
being full unhindered access), which
would entail some form of<br>
authentification and bulk access
restrictions. Every single one of the<br>
uses Andrew desribes would remain
possible and unproblematic, but the<br>
data would no longer be in as much
danger of being abused as it is today.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 06.06.2017 um 22:07 schrieb Michael
Peddemors:<br>
> +1 as well..<br>
><br>
> .. but with so many +1's on
having that data publicly accessible,
it<br>
> would be interesting to take a
straw poll, to a wider audience on
that<br>
> simple question..<br>
><br>
> It would be also nice to see what
category the parties in each camp<br>
> lie? We know that everyone
involved in making the internet a
safer and<br>
> better place (security companies,
law enforcement et al) want it<br>
> available, and to define 'thin
data' as wide as possible, and I can<br>
> understand that some
consideration to privacy be considered
so that it<br>
> doesn't go too wide, but not
really certain I understand the
position<br>
> of those that want it as 'thin'
as possible, or non-existant, and/or<br>
> the parties behind that position
and their numbers.<br>
><br>
> And of course the ever present
question for both camps, is the
opinion<br>
> coming from a place where there
are financial motivations (not that<br>
> necessarily there is anything
wrong with that <sic>) that have
formed<br>
> the basis of that opinion. (eg,
if the money equation was removed,<br>
> would you still have that
opinion, or even be in the
conversation?)<br>
><br>
> For all we know, the privacy camp
are in very small numbers in this<br>
> conversation, and while they
might hold legitimate positions, maybe
it<br>
> isn't enough to affect the
directions/positions of ICANN as a
group<br>
> going forward.<br>
><br>
> And IMHO, even if it was 50/50
split, if it came down to two camps,
eg<br>
> 'the ones keeping us safe' and
'it affects/risks our pocketbooks', I<br>
> would err on policies that would
aid the former..<br>
><br>
> Don't want 'politics' to affect
such important decisions..<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 17-06-06 11:22 AM, Andrew
Sullivan wrote:<br>
>> Hi,<br>
>><br>
>> On the call today there were
arguments being made about why certain<br>
>> fields should not be publicly
accessible. In effect, what we are
now<br>
>> arguing about, in talking
about what should be considered "thin
data",<br>
>> is the definition of the set
of data to which unauthenticated
access<br>
>> should be permitted. (Let us
please not get distracted by what is<br>
>> actually required by the RAA
or anything like that just now, since
the<br>
>> outcome of this policy
discussion might change that.)<br>
>><br>
>> There were several arguments
put forth about whether the created
on,<br>
>> updated on, and expiry dates
should be included. Similarly, people<br>
>> discussed whether the domain
status values should be included. I<br>
>> believe they must be.<br>
>><br>
>> The Internet is unlike many
other technologies because of its
radical<br>
>> decentralization. That is
not some sort of political choice, but<br>
>> instead a fundamental part of
the design of the Internet: it's a<br>
>> network of networks (of
networks…) formed by voluntary
interoperation<br>
>> among the participants.
Participants in the Internet
interoperate<br>
>> without setting up formal
contractual arrangements between all
the<br>
>> participating parties. This
feature is part of what has made the<br>
>> Internet so successful
compared to other telecommunications
systems,<br>
>> because the barrier to entry
is really low. But that design comes
at<br>
>> a cost.<br>
>><br>
>> The cost is that there's not
always a party to speak to, with whom
one<br>
>> has a pre-existing
relationship. If communications break
down between<br>
>> two telephone customers, they
know whom to call: the phone company.<br>
>> The phone company also has
contractual (or sometimes treaty)<br>
>> relationships to other phone
companies.<br>
>><br>
>> The Internet doesn't work
that way. If you and I are
communicating<br>
>> over the Internet, there is
no guarantee of direct contractual<br>
>> relationships all the way
along the transit path: that's what
open<br>
>> peering policies ensure. The
way we make this work in fact is by<br>
>> placing the responsibility
for troubleshooting out at the edges.
And<br>
>> because of that, when I need
to troubleshoot my site I need to have<br>
>> tools with which to do that.<br>
>><br>
>> In domain-based
communications (such as email, IP
telephony, websites,<br>
>> money transfer, and thousands
of other applications), when I
encounter<br>
>> a problem with the
communication I need to answer whether
the problem<br>
>> is in _my_ network operation,
or in the other end. Important data
to<br>
>> rule out "the other end" is
in the thin RDS data.<br>
>><br>
>> Obviously, the nameserver and
DNSSEC information in the RDS will
allow<br>
>> me to tell whether what is in
the global DNS is what ought to be<br>
>> there. For instance, if the
RDS has one value for the name
servers,<br>
>> but the DNS returns something
else, there is a problem.<br>
>><br>
>> Less obvious but just as
important are the status values. If a
name<br>
>> is on Hold or is
pendingTransfer or something like
that, it can tell<br>
>> me that something is up. A
name that doesn't appear in the DNS
but<br>
>> has a full complement of name
servers in the RDS, for example, might<br>
>> be on hold; and I can't tell
that without seeing the status values.<br>
>><br>
>> In the same way, the dates in
the RDS allow a troubleshooter to<br>
>> understand what might be
wrong when things are broken. If a
name is<br>
>> set to expire in a day and
you're getting a parking page on the<br>
>> website, you have a clue
about what is going on. Most of the
examples<br>
>> cited in<br>
>> <a
href="https://whoapi.com/blog/1582/5-all-time-domain-expirations-in-internets-history/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://whoapi.com/blog/1582/<wbr>5-all-time-domain-expirations-<wbr>in-internets-history/</a><br>
>><br>
>> were trivial to understand
for help desks that could see that a
name<br>
>> that should have existed for
some time was just hours old, because
the<br>
>> created_on date was
available. And if you start having
trouble and<br>
>> see a domain was updated
about the same time the trouble
started, you<br>
>> have a pretty good clue that
the problem is most likely at the
target<br>
>> domain, and not in your own
network.<br>
>><br>
>> As for the question of why
the global Internet infrastructure
needs to<br>
>> help with this, the answer is
that _that's what the infrastructure
is<br>
>> for_. We have registrars and
registries in order to co-ordinate
these<br>
>> assignments and make those
assignments available, in support of
the<br>
>> distributed administration
and operation of the Internet. If the<br>
>> infrastructure isn't
providing this kind of information in
order to<br>
>> help administrators of
various Internet administrators, then
it isn't<br>
>> doing its job.<br>
>><br>
>> The Internet is a distributed
system. If you want to make
distributed<br>
>> systems work, you have to
allow the operators to have enough<br>
>> information to do their jobs
independently of one another. So,<br>
>> regardless of where one lands
on whether any of this data is
personal<br>
>> data, it makes no
difference. If you want the domain
name system to<br>
>> continue to work reliably,
you have to publish this data.<br>
>> Centralization and locking
the data up for just registrars simply<br>
>> won't scale.<br>
>><br>
>> Best regards,<br>
>><br>
>> A<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
--<br>
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of global brand threat mitigation</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148m_1381224760868507598moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
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------------------------------<wbr>--------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
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Email: <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148m_1381224760868507598moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-- <br>
</div>
<div>jonathan matkowsky, vp - ip & head of global
brand threat mitigation</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
------------------------------<wbr>--------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="gmail-m_4614922338588513148moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</body>
</html>