<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mv="http://macVmlSchemaUri" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Title" content="">
<meta name="Keywords" content="">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Arial;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.msoIns
{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-style-name:"";
text-decoration:underline;
color:teal;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:595.0pt 842.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:75248558;
mso-list-template-ids:-1689589180;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style>
</head>
<body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Fabricio, Susan, Scott and Carlton were also involved. I’m not sure if I’ve overlooked anyone else who is still involved via this PDP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The EWG basically took over our lives for the better part of 18 months.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Michele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hosting, Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">https://www.blacknight.com/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">http://blacknight.blog/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Personal blog: https://michele.blog/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton@legitscript.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday 8 June 2017 at 16:10<br>
<b>To: </b>Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Who is in charge? (was Re: Why the thin data is necessary)]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444">That's a good point, Chuck. I think the EWG final report should indeed be required reading (long though it is). I very much appreciate the work of the group, which I know took a
long time, was extremely (in my view) thoughtful, and was the product of not only hard work, but compromise -- I know that Michele N., Rod and Stephanie from this group were part of the group and spent a lot of time on it. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444">That said, and with full respect and appreciation for the EWG's work, I strongly oppose the EWG report, and for those who want to know the reasons (and are willing to slog through
a critical analysis of it), I encourage you to review my 2013 <a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/input-to-ewg/attachments/20130823/410038bb/LegitScriptCommentsonICANNEWGWhoisReplacementStructure-0001.pdf">letter</a> to the EWG, which admittedly was based
on the Initial Report (not Final Report), but all of my reasons still hold as the Final Report still contained, generally at least, the same elements even if the wording changed a bit. We don't have to accept the EWG report, and my personal view is that it
should be rejected by our group because:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#444444;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">It shifts from an “open by default” to a “closed by default” system whereby only certain Internet users would be granted private access to gTLD domain name registration information;<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#444444;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Empowers one organization to determine what constitutes legitimate use of WHOIS data, and to track, monitor and audit requests and use of such records (and penalize those who fail to comply);<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#444444;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Grants monopoly power of all WHOIS data to the ARDS, including the attendant power to determine prices and restrict or prohibit access;<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#444444;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Stifles future innovation and competition involving existing and potential future uses of gTLD registration data, to the extent permitted by applicable regulations (including the EU GDPR);<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#444444;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Prohibits lay Internet users from accessing and using WHOIS information, in many instances activity which may improve the security and stability of the Internet for the benefit of all;<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#444444;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Limits cybersecurity and other organizations’ ability to investigate Internet crime and support legitimate business interests (e.g., in the payments sector for compliance purposes); and, among other reasons, <o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#444444;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Violates the 2009 ICANN Affirmation Of Commitments and exceeds the scope of the EWG’s mandate as directed by the ICANN CEO and Board of Directors. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444">In my view, those are sound reasons, and there may well be others. I'm not entirely sure when the right time is for us to formally reject the EWG report, but I for one will strongly
be in favor of soundly and strongly rejecting it. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763">John Horton<br>
President and CEO, LegitScript</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="96" height="36" id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#444444">Follow</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0B5394">
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Legit</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0B5394">Script</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">:
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#CC0000">LinkedIn</span></a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" target="_blank"><span style="color:#6AA84F">Facebook</span></a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" target="_blank"><span style="color:#674EA7">Twitter</span></a>
| <u><span style="color:#FF9900"><a href="http://blog.legitscript.com" target="_blank">Blog</a></span></u> |<span style="color:#FF9900"> <a href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts" target="_blank">Google+</a></span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#FF9900"><img border="0" width="46" height="96" id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"><img border="0" width="47" height="96" id="_x0000_i1027" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ"></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Gomes, Chuck via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Neil,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Have you read the Expert Working Group (EWG) Report? If not, it is prerequisite reading for this WG because the ICANN Board tasked us as a WG with using it as
a starting point for our work. It can be found here: <a href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/final-report-06jun14-en.pdf" target="_blank">
https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/final-report-06jun14-en.pdf</a> .<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">I encourage you to note the composition of the EWG that is described starting on page 164. In my opinion the group consisted of some extremely qualified people
with lots of different areas of expertise. That said, you may still think they were naïve in recommending a gated access solution, but you should at least be aware that they put an incredible amount of time and effort into their work and their final report
provides essential information for our WG to consider.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Our WG does not have to accept the EWG recommendations but we certainly need to seriously evaluate them and have sound reasons for rejecting them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a name="m_7137213314684181213__MailEndCompose"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></a><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US">
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Schwartzman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 08, 2017 8:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ICANN RDS <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Who is in charge? (was Re: Why the thin data is necessary)]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
On Jun 8, 2017, at 11:38 AM, jonathan matkowsky <<a href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net" target="_blank">jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On a side note, a threat researcher or analyst is not the equivalent of an investigator. So focusing on certifying investigators is irrelevant to any issue
within the working group. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">You are correct Jonathan, if you mean ‘law enforcement investigators’. In some companies, the term is used synonymously with threat researcher. In that context,
"certifying investigators, researchers and analysts is irrelevant to any issue within the working group.” would be more apropos.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">That said gated access needs some sort of parsing model. which is why I object to it in any form.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On Jun 8, 2017, at 10:55 AM, Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
What criteria does an organization like APWG apply, when it admits members and shares data with them? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<a href="http://apwg.org/membership/membership/" target="_blank">http://apwg.org/membership/membership/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Example of some, but far from all, security initiatives include APWG.org, M3AAWG and FIRST.org (this latter with very stringent criteria, they do onsite visits
of CERTs and SIRTs, etcetera). Membership is subject to proprietary internal regulation specific to these organizations, and may be determined by a vote by existing members, ongoing reviews, etcetera.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">The type of data exchanged in almost all cases is deeper on the order of a magnitude than WHOIS data in terms of sensitivity, it may involve materials, discussions
of techniques, that would provide benefit to the adversary were they know (or known that we know), or disrupt legal initiatives being prepared, or even live law enforcement cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">What happens when trust is breached? The member in question is removed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Simply because someone passes accreditation doesn’t make them impervious to engaging in future abuse; the most recent case being an analyst with the NSA who leaked
top secret documents to the press. I know someone who is currently in the process of being accredited for such a job, it is at minimum an 18-month process. Perhaps more. I’ve not spoken to her in a while. Furthermore, Mr. Snowden, I believe, did not have such
accreditation, as an outside contractor. So there’s that, too.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">N.B.: not all researchers, investigators, and analysts are members of companies or organizations that maintain membership to these groups. Many are professionals without
credentials. Many companies are not members. Their abuse ops teams operate without credentials. They access WHOIS constantly to protect their networks, and those of others, for example, feeding the anti-spam mechanisms protecting u of T’s mail systems.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> When I have questions like this, I often check with experts before I ask. They don't call me naive, they answer my questions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
The phrase "I believe the <b>notion</b> of certifying private cybercrime investigators to be painfully naive” said nothing about you personally; I spoke to the concept, nothing more. you can choose to take personal umbrage but it was not meant in that manner.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">we need a system that is slightly more organized and less open to anti-competitive behaviour than the club-of-folks-who-know-each-other under which we are operating
now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
I agree when you said "Folks, can we please try to be polite to one another on this list? “, after all, calling the security research industry anti-competitive isn’t impolite. [for non-english speakers, the use of the word “impolite" was intended to be ironic].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">I do not believe we need anything more than what we have now. WHOIS access is working extremely well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Neil Schwartzman</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Executive Director</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://cauce.org" target="_blank">http://cauce.org</a></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Tel :
<a href="tel:(303)%20800-6345" target="_blank">(303) 800-6345</a></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Twitter : @cauce</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>