<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">I am not talking any one specific registrar, and I'm certainly not pointing a finger at you. I am just talking about generally speaking, competing interests at stake and how to protect the public interest. It is our job to build consensus. Not to get emotional and use disrespectful communication like "I pity you". </div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Right, here we go again ascribing presumed ulterior motives when
there are none. I am sick of it!</p>
<p>We contracted parties are here because we want to work in an
environment where what we are required to do is actually legal.
End of story! Anything else is just your fanatasy of evil
registrars lurking under bridges trying to protect criminals. If
that is what you actually, truly believe, I pity you!<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-2437035754921011219moz-cite-prefix">Am 08.06.2017 um 11:00 schrieb jonathan
matkowsky:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">Yes, it
does seem that there are competing interests here. Privacy
enthusiasts who are trying to champion a guaranteed right to
anonymity or complete privacy online over efficient
availability of information and freedom of access to the
public Internet on the one hand. And it seems that registrars
also have a competing interest in placing barriers to access
at the registrar level because it creates for transparency,
and holding them to public account. Access prevents misconduct
by registrars so they have a competing interest in avoiding
exposing deficiencies to careful public scrutiny. </div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="m_-2437035754921011219gmail-m_-823369812105851722gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Jonathan Matkowsky</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 11:40 AM, John
Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I find it telling the
only actual entity that is named when we talk about whois
scraping is domaintools, not actual spammers.<br>
<br>
To me that means you are MORE concerned about people who
are investigating abuse than the actual people causing the
abuse. That is why I am not really interested in gated
access to anything besides some obvious other reasons
(there simply is no way to build it, it will break things,
it will make all the abuse worse).<br>
<br>
You have convinced me and others that the first step when
you create gated rds is to kick out security researchers
and the anti-abuse industry. I mean why else did we burn a
few hundred emails and weeks and thin data, for crying out
loud?<br>
<br>
Based on the specific arguments made here it is clear to
some the problem is not spam or abuse, the problem is
there are those who fight it and it causes a bunch of
headaches for the wrong people.<br>
<br>
J<br>
<br>
--<br>
John Bambenek<br>
<br>
On Jun 8, 2017, at 07:50, "<a href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se" target="_blank">benny@nordreg.se</a>" <<a href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se" target="_blank">benny@nordreg.se</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>> To the point at hand: I believe the notion of
certifying private cybercrime investigators to be
painfully naive (do I ignore reports from someone without
a Internet Investigator License? Do we disallow them
access to data?), impractical in the developed world, and
deeply chauvinistic, patronizing and exclusionary to our
colleagues in emerging nations where capacity building is
exactly what’s needed to deal with next-gen abuse.<br>
><br>
> A contractual relationship, call it accredited or
whatever you want to call it, could be allowed better
access to data for investigation. That would imo be a
better solution than todays practise were the data are
flowing freely to all kind of purposes which often are
used in a non respect full manner if you look at the
disclaimer all registrars have in there whois output.<br>
><br>
> I find it interesting that there are people here on
this list who defend a practise which clearly violate
disclaimers in whois conditions for use of data and in the
same sentence call them self good guys, that is kind of
ironic.<br>
><br>
> This is the standard disclaimer I am referring too.<br>
><br>
> "# NOTE: All queries and IP addresses are logged.<br>
> #<br>
> # By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree to abide by
the following<br>
> # terms of use: You agree to (a) use the retrieved
data only for lawful<br>
> # purposes and (b) not use the retrieved data to:<br>
> # (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the
transmission of mass<br>
> # unsolicited, commercial advertising or
solicitations via direct mail,<br>
> # e-mail, telephone, or facsimile; or (2) enable high
volume, automated,<br>
> # electronic processes that apply to “registrar" or
its information systems.<br>
> # The compilation, repackaging, dissemination or
other use of this data<br>
> # is expressly prohibited without the prior written
consent of “registrar".<br>
> #<br>
> # The data in “registrar" WHOIS database is provided
by”registrar" for<br>
> # information purposes only, and to assist persons in
obtaining<br>
> # information about or related to a domain name
registration record.<br>
><br>
> I have never given, Domaintools or other services
like that, a written consent for repackaging the data to
there system, just as an example.<br>
><br>
> I do see there can be complications in a model with
contractual relationships but its all about knowing who
you give data too and who you can go to if there are
problems in there use of the data. It’s not a perfect
model but a more correct way of threatening data exchange
were the collectors (registrars) are under a contractual
obligation and can be responsible for how the data are
used.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig
hilsen<br>
><br>
> Benny Samuelsen<br>
> Registry Manager - Domainexpert<br>
><br>
> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar<br>
> IANA-ID: 638<br>
> Phone: <a href="tel:%2B46.42197080" value="+4642197080" target="_blank">+46.42197080</a><br>
> Direct: <a href="tel:%2B47.32260201" value="+4732260201" target="_blank">+47.32260201</a><br>
> Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B47.40410200" value="+4740410200" target="_blank">+47.40410200</a><br>
><br>
>> On 8 Jun 2017, at 07:54, Neil Schwartzman <<a href="mailto:neil@cauce.org" target="_blank">neil@cauce.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> My experience differs slightly. They aren’t
ignored. The presence of these .TLDs is a strong indicator
of abuse which bears further investigation.<br>
>><br>
>> To the point at hand: I believe the notion of
certifying private cybercrime investigators to be
painfully naive (do I ignore reports from someone without
a Internet Investigator License? Do we disallow them
access to data?), impractical in the developed world, and
deeply chauvinistic, patronizing and exclusionary to our
colleagues in emerging nations where capacity building is
exactly what’s needed to deal with next-gen abuse.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 2:36 AM, allison nixon
<<a href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> We're getting there. Entire top level domains
are already ignored on many networks like .science, .xyz,
.pw, .top, .club, et cetera<br>
>><br>
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