<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Volcker,<br><br></div>Context is everything. Stephanie made the following assertion "Actually, ICANN has a monopoly over who is an accredited registrar for the gTLDs. " which is in fact not correct.<br><br></div>The reason that people are participating in this painful process is because they care. To assert that we should pretend that reality isn't reality does a disservice to both the participants in this process and ICANN as an institution. The goal is (or should be) to come up with an outcome which results in a stronger RDS replacement for whois or to recognize that despite it's limitations, whois is about as good as it gets for the forseeable future. To the extent that this group and ICANN succeeds or fails impacts whether people choose to continue to participate in the ICANN "game" (as in game theory) or choose to play another game.<br><br></div>Let's stick to reality rather than pretend. It usually results in better outcomes.<br><br></div>Michael Hammer<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 8:14 AM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Yes, there are alternate roots and alternate means of
communication on the internet outside the realm of ICANN, but they
have little to no relevance to what we are discussing. Our mandate
is the ICANN-controlled realm. For all effects and purposes of our
discussion, we can pretend only this world exists as ICANN has no
relevance to the outside. Let's stick to that.</p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p>Volker<br>
</p></font></span><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<div class="m_3695712634473626675moz-cite-prefix">Am 08.06.2017 um 14:04 schrieb Dotzero:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Stephanie,<br>
<br>
</div>
Your response clearly shows that you don't understand how
the Internet functions at a technical level. To put it in
simple terms, ICANN only has a monopoly over who is a
registry or registrar for gTLDs that people choose to point
to. Anyone can set up alternate roots and if people believe
that is a better mouse trap and choose to point to those
roots then that is what will work from both a technical and
practical perspective. <br>
<br>
When people talk about the "dark web", that is an
alternative system that does not rely on ICANN, the root
servers and gTLDs which ICANN controls or the ccTLDs which
ICANN does not control. <br>
<br>
</div>
When you speak of "controlling things" you misunderstand the
nature of the Internet. Perhaps you were not around for this -
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States#/media/File:Munitions_T-shirt_%28front%29.jpg" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Export_of_cryptography_from_<wbr>the_United_States#/media/File:<wbr>Munitions_T-shirt_(front).jpg</a><br>
<br>
</div>
Michael Hammer<br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 5:32 AM,
Stephanie Perrin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">"ICANN has
no power independent of the agreement of everyone<br>
to use the ICANN policies for the IANA DNS root. Ask
MySpace or the<br>
authors of Gopher whether there are any permanent favourites
on the<br>
Internet."<br>
<br>
Actually, ICANN has a monopoly over who is an accredited
registrar for the gTLDs. With respect to the contracts
between registries and registrars, I would argue that the
community has historically had very little opportunity to
influence those contracts, with the exception of the IPC who
got their requirements in to the DOC prior to the
establishment of ICANN. At the moment we are expending a
great deal of our valuable time designing the public
interface that contains the data we deem acceptable to
share. Inherent in the concept of tiered access, which some
ccTLDS already employ, and which the DPAs have already said
(in documents in our repository which clearly some of us
need to reread) is the concept of discrimination....you need
to identify who you are and why you want the data to get
more access, possibly untraced access (to enable
investigations etc) and bulk data. I do understand that
there is no "centre" there, but I certainly think that ICANN
has influence over who gets access to the next tier of data.
Let me repeat for greater clarity: I am not talking about
thin data.<br>
<br>
I have taken the time to plough through the Interpol data
protection handbook. Some may recall that Caroline Goemans,
the Data Protection Officer for Interpol came to
Copenhagen. I hesitate to even mention their handbook
because folks will choose to believe that I want the
Interpol rules for data sharing to apply to those tireless
fighters who report abuse, across the globe...so let me
immediately say relax, I am not suggesting this. However, a
mini version of how trusted parties share data needs, in my
view, to be developed. I was just accused of suggesting
something that is "impractical in the developed world, and
deeply chauvinistic, patronizing and exclusionary to our
colleagues in emerging nations where capacity building is
exactly what’s needed to deal with next-gen abuse."
Frankly, it should be admissible to suggest that we need a
system that is slightly more organized and less open to
anti-competitive behaviour than the
club-of-folks-who-know-each-ot<wbr>her under which we are
operating now. It is precisely because we are global and a
lot of the criminal behaviour emanates from countries where
nobody has any mlats or has signed and implemented the
Budapest Convention that I would suggest we should think
about some kind of accreditation for access to data.
Otherwise, registrars who surrender personal data of their
registrants are likely in violation of more law than mere
data protection law. [for non-english speakers, the use of
the word "mere" was intended to be ironic"].<br>
<br>
Cheers Stephanie<br>
<br>
<br>
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