<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Fair enough Paul, that
one is a tough slog too....</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Stephanie</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-06-08 13:12, Paul Keating
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:D55F5204.9FE8F%25Paul@law.es">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div>Hi Stephanie,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Reading is always good.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At present, I just don’t want to get bogged down in issues
such as gateway criteria. That is something that should be
dealt with down the road.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt;
text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT:
0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;
BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span
style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> <<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
on behalf of Stephanie Perrin <<a
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Thursday, June
8, 2017 at 7:04 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Michele Blacknight
<<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">michele@blacknight.com</a>>, "<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Who is in charge? (was Re: Why the thin data
is necessary)]<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"
style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0
0 0 5;">
<div>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Thanks
Michele, I was actually trying to point to it as an
example of good practice. I discussed the whole
accreditation idea with Peter C, particularly in the
context of work that is going on at the <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.globalcyberalliance.org/index.html#contact"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.globalcyberalliance.org/index.html#contact</a>.
I realize some folks don't like the idea, indeed it
would be perhaps more accurate to say that
apparently the whole idea is anathema to them, but
anybody who has read the UN Cybercrime report might
possibly think we need to improve standards
somehow. I assume there is no quarrel here as to
whether that 2013 report is worth reading....</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">cheers Steph</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-06-08 12:05, Michele
Neylon - Blacknight wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A978A189-6877-44E8-A815-B16C6C13A5C3@blacknight.com">
<meta name="Title" content="">
<meta name="Keywords" content="">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15
(filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Courier New";
panose-1:2 7 3 9 2 2 5 2 4 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Lucida Grande";
panose-1:2 11 6 0 4 5 2 2 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New",serif;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Courier;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.msoIns
{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-style-name:"";
text-decoration:underline;
color:teal;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:595.0pt 842.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Stephanie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The APWG’s
membership page provides some details on who can
join and some of the criteria that they apply to
the membership process:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a
href="http://apwg.org/membership/membership/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://apwg.org/membership/membership/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There are
several APWG members on this list who might be
able to speak to data access. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I don’t think
it’s particularly offensive to ask how an
organisation decides who should get access to
data. If you don’t ask I’ve no idea how you are
meant to learn.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
Michele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mr
Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blacknight
Solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hosting,
Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.blacknight.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://blacknight.blog/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://blacknight.blog/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Intl.
+353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Direct
Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Personal
blog: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://michele.blog/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://michele.blog/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Some
thoughts: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://ceo.hosting/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://ceo.hosting/</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blacknight
Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside
Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93
X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org></a>
on behalf of Stephanie Perrin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true"><stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday 8 June 2017 at 09:56<br>
<b>To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Who is in
charge? (was Re: Why the thin data is
necessary)]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida
Grande",sans-serif">Calling me naive, ill
informed etc. does not actually answer the
question folks. It is, I am afraid, a valid
question. What criteria does an organization like
APWG apply, when it admits members and shares data
with them? How do you ensure you are not sharing
data with organizations who are going to misuse
it? that data of course is much more that what we
are talking about with thin data, but I did
actually work on this issue on successive versions
of the anti-spam legislation. Oddly enough,
government lawyers examining the issue (mostly
from the competition bureau who deal with criminal
matters) never labelled me "naive".</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida
Grande",sans-serif">Folks, can we please try
to be polite to one another on this list? When I
have questions like this, I often check with
experts before I ask. They don't call me naive,
they answer my questions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida
Grande",sans-serif">Thanks again.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida
Grande",sans-serif">Stephanie</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2017-06-08 01:54, Neil
Schwartzman wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">My experience differs slightly.
They aren’t ignored. The presence of these .TLDs
is a strong indicator of abuse which bears further
investigation. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To the point at hand: I
believe the notion of certifying private
cybercrime investigators to be painfully naive
(do I ignore reports from someone without a
Internet Investigator License? Do we disallow
them access to data?), impractical in the
developed world, and deeply chauvinistic,
patronizing and exclusionary to our colleagues
in emerging nations where capacity building is
exactly what’s needed to deal with next-gen
abuse.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jun 8, 2017, at
2:36 AM, allison nixon <<a
href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">We're
getting there. Entire top level
domains are already ignored on many
networks like .science, .xyz, .pw,
.top, .club, et cetera</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></blockquote>
</span>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>