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    <p>Maybe we should start selling automated phone mailboxes for use
      in whois. The registrant could set it up with a recorded message
      and thereby fulfill all requirements without having to expose his
      private number.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Volker<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 20.07.2017 um 17:38 schrieb Rod
      Rasmussen:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:699513D5-95C5-47BE-AA86-AFAD0D87ECFD@rodrasmussen.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      Chuck,
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Please consider it “put forward” then. :-)
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">I too have been experimenting a bit with
          registration-specific phone numbers and distressingly find the
          same issue - call upon call that only started to the number
          once the data was published in whois *AND* in the hands of the
          registrar of course (hard to tell who the real villain is
          given that, probably both).  Many of these are the Indian
          boiler rooms pretending to be “Microsoft support” for example.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">This fits in with the concepts we were discussing
          last week on “preferred contact methods” for a particular
          contact object (person/legal entity).  For example, we could
          still mandate collecting a phone number, but only publishing
          it for particular purposes and providing a “preferred public
          contact” method that is less intrusive depending upon the
          preferences of that contact.  Not saying I endorse that
          approach or not, just saying that we need to be thinking along
          those directions.  For example, I could provide my e-mail
          address as my preferred “public” contact method since I can
          spam filter it far more effectively than phone calls, but
          still be reachable via phone for important technical issues or
          abuse problems with some sort of vetting.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">At the end of the day we’re talking about a
          “directory service” here and we need to be approaching it from
          how we would engineer one at the end of the second decade of
          the 21st century rather than the beginning of the last decade
          of the 20th.  A long list of fixed field parameters tied to a
          single primary database key (domain name) that are
          one-size-fits-all for collection and public publication are
          definitely “old school”.  Object-oriented data with relational
          pointers and flexible context that allow for differentiated
          publication are a bit more modern...</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Cheers,</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Rod</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">
          <div>
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
              <div class="">On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:20 AM, Chuck Gomes
                Consulting &lt;<a href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com"
                  class="" moz-do-not-send="true">consult@cgomes.com</a>&gt;
                wrote:</div>
              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <div class="">
                <div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;
                  font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                  normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                  normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
                  text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
                  normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                  0px;">
                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                    font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Johtan,<o:p
                      class=""></o:p></div>
                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                    font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
                      class=""> </o:p></div>
                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                    font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I
                    suggest that you either become a member of the WG
                    and then submit this request or find a member who
                    would put this suggestion forward.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                    font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
                      class=""> </o:p></div>
                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                    font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Chuck<o:p
                      class=""></o:p></div>
                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                    font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a
                      name="_MailEndCompose" class=""
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><o:p class=""> </o:p></a></div>
                  <span class=""></span>
                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                    font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b
                      class="">From:</b><span
                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Jothan
                    Frakes [<a href="mailto:jothan@jothan.com"
                      style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:jothan@jothan.com</a>]<span
                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
                    <b class="">Sent:</b><span
                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday,
                    July 19, 2017 1:58 PM<br class="">
                    <b class="">To:</b><span
                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Chuck Gomes
                    Consulting &lt;<a href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com"
                      style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">consult@cgomes.com</a>&gt;<br
                      class="">
                    <b class="">Cc:</b><span
                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RDS WG &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                      style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>&gt;<br
                      class="">
                    <b class="">Subject:</b><span
                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
                    [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discussion Topics<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                    font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
                      class=""> </o:p></div>
                  <div class="">
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi-<o:p
                        class=""></o:p></div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class="">I am an observer on this group, but
                        wanted to ask if it is possible to inject an
                        explicit 'do not call for marketing' field into
                        the whois which would be opt-out while we are
                        under the hood.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class="">I realize such a thing is likely to be
                        unenforceable, as there have been disclaimers
                        and directions on use of the whois data within
                        the output for years that gets completely
                        disregarded by marketers, but it seems like it
                        could be a hook upon which legislative efforts
                        could be added.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class="">After receiving my 15th call today from
                        aggressive telemarketers calling me on a
                        telephone number that I created specifically for
                        a new domain registration made less than 36
                        hours ago, it is clear to me that we MUST do
                        something about this predatory behaviour if we
                        can, and the information is clearly being
                        sourced from whois.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class="">-Jothan<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div class="">
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br
                        class="" clear="all">
                      <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
                            12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                            sans-serif;"><br class="">
                            Jothan Frakes<br class="">
                            Tel: +1.206-355-0230<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
                        class=""> </o:p></div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                        class="">On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Chuck
                        Gomes Consulting &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com"
                          target="_blank" style="color: purple;
                          text-decoration: underline;" class=""
                          moz-do-not-send="true">consult@cgomes.com</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                      <blockquote style="border-style: none none none
                        solid; border-left-width: 1pt;
                        border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding:
                        0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt;
                        margin-right: 0in;" class="" type="cite">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                              sans-serif;" class="">Here are the list
                              discussion topics in preparation for next
                              week’s WG meeting:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                            <ul style="margin-bottom: 0in;" class=""
                              type="disc">
                              <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Any
                                topics related to the survey that will
                                be distributed later today.<o:p class=""></o:p></li>
                            </ul>
                            <ul style="margin-bottom: 0in;" class=""
                              type="disc">
                              <ul style="margin-bottom: 0in;" class=""
                                type="circle">
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Collecting
                                  the data element ‘Registrant’ for the
                                  RDS<o:p class=""></o:p></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Collecting
                                  the data element ‘Registrant
                                  Organization’ for the RDS<o:p class=""></o:p></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Collecting
                                  the data element ‘Registrant Country’
                                  for the RDS<o:p class=""></o:p></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Collecting
                                  the data element ‘Registrant Contact’
                                  in the RDS.<o:p class=""></o:p></li>
                              </ul>
                            </ul>
                            <ul style="margin-bottom: 0in;" class=""
                              type="disc">
                              <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Any
                                topics related to collecting the
                                following data elements* for the RDS:<o:p
                                  class=""></o:p></li>
                            </ul>
                            <ul style="margin-bottom: 0in;" class=""
                              type="disc">
                              <ul style="margin-bottom: 0in;" class=""
                                type="circle">
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Admin
                                  Contact &amp; Contact ID<o:p class=""></o:p></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Technical
                                  Contact &amp; Contact ID<o:p class=""></o:p></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Privacy/Proxy
                                  Provider Contact &amp; Contact ID<o:p
                                    class=""></o:p></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Reseller<o:p
                                    class=""></o:p></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Registrar
                                  Abuse Contact Email Address<o:p
                                    class=""></o:p></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Registrar
                                  Abuse Contact Phone<o:p class=""></o:p></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">URL
                                  of Internic Complaint Site (ICANN
                                  Whois Data Problem Reporting System)<o:p
                                    class=""></o:p></li>
                                <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
                                  0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
                                  font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Original
                                  Registration Date<o:p class=""></o:p></li>
                              </ul>
                            </ul>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                              sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;
                              font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                              sans-serif;" class="">* Note that most WG
                              members who responded to last week’s poll
                              supported collecting these data elements
                              for the RDS.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;
                              font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                              sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                              sans-serif;" class="">If you have any
                              questions, please ask them.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                              sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color:
                                rgb(136, 136, 136);" class=""> <o:p
                                  class=""></o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                              sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color:
                                rgb(136, 136, 136);" class="">Chuck<o:p
                                  class=""></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
                          class=""><br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
                          gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class="">
                          <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                            style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                            underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br
                            class="">
                          <a
                            href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
                            target="_blank" style="color: purple;
                            text-decoration: underline;" class=""
                            moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><o:p
                            class=""></o:p></div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
                        class=""> </o:p></div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                  font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                  font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                  text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
                  none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
                  inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br
                  style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
                  font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                  font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
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                  none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
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                  list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica;
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                <a
                  href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
                  style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;
                  font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
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                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></div>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
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    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>

Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> 

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>

Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken 
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
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This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.



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