<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
p.MsoNoSpacing, li.MsoNoSpacing, div.MsoNoSpacing
{mso-style-priority:1;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.msoIns
{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-style-name:"";
text-decoration:underline;
color:teal;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email, and the Adobe Connect chat, MP3 & Adobe Connect recordings below
for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call held on Tuesday, 12 September 2017 at 16:00 UTC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height:15.6pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">MP3: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <b>
</b></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#111111"><a href="http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-12sep17-en.mp3">http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-12sep17-en.mp3</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height:15.6pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">AC recording:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://participate.icann.org/p7ztw52v527/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=f0f4dcd59786ab91f6008d03e03bc2edb0041973f05ef183d70cdae027853382"><b><span style="color:black;background:white">https://participate.icann.org/p7ztw52v527/</span></b></a><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DwMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=GJMkY4Fbi9sry9Z53DaSWJm-mHxMfFxg7MEVDf2JU90&s=FI3QJYH6DWWCDQir6NDMSjPkzdqfTTUmf9Ua-AYpc14&e="><span style="color:purple">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar</span></a><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Mailing list archives:
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/"><span style="color:purple">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/</span></a><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Wiki agenda page: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">
<a href="https://community.icann.org/x/ZmfwAw">https://community.icann.org/x/ZmfwAw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Julie
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">———————————————<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG Tuesday, 12 September 2017<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Julie Bisland:Welcome to the GNSO Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group call on Tuesday, 12 September 2017 at 16:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Julie Bisland:Agenda wiki page:
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_ZmfwAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=QiF-05YzARosRvTYd84AB_UYInlydmFcjNmBM5XgySw&m=lA0ZgIjk9ECxp7GN0bbU1EZkBVGTyXnHWNy9TcnkiPc&s=TKckWai-bfiFzZYJ0JuWLs1oCT8ikujvvfJYREbDTxs&e">
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_ZmfwAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=QiF-05YzARosRvTYd84AB_UYInlydmFcjNmBM5XgySw&m=lA0ZgIjk9ECxp7GN0bbU1EZkBVGTyXnHWNy9TcnkiPc&s=TKckWai-bfiFzZYJ0JuWLs1oCT8ikujvvfJYREbDTxs&e</a>=
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Krishna Seeburn - Kris:hi julie...<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Julie Bisland:hello Kris! <o:p>
</o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Julie Bisland:Welcome, and Happy Tuesday to you and Dina! You're the winners today; early-arrival winners!
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Krishna Seeburn - Kris::)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:happy tuesday to everyone<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Julie Bisland:Welcome Volker :)
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Dina Solveig Jalkanen:Hi everyone, I have to get off the bus in a bit, will try to continue on mobile after interruption.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Dina Solveig Jalkanen:Julie, thank you - it's because I forgot I was in UTC+3 so was here an hour early.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Julie Bisland:ohhhh haha, well, that is completely understandable!<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Dina Solveig Jalkanen:Yes, all those years in the uniersity didn't help me with UTC... :)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:Hello all<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:hi. in an airport on mobile so I expect not to speak
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Herb Waye Ombuds:Greetings all...<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Chuck Gomes:Hello from the Oregon coast.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Handout: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_66086758_RDSPDP-2DHandout-2DFor12SeptCall.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=QiF-05YzARosRvTYd84AB_UYInlydmFcjNmBM5XgySw&m=lA0ZgIjk9ECxp7GN0bbU1EZkBVGTyXnHWNy9TcnkiPc&s=bR7GAYzNKNEHYJknj8EWeHzd2ehtcb-6tI8lsshVNtA&e">
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_66086758_RDSPDP-2DHandout-2DFor12SeptCall.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=QiF-05YzARosRvTYd84AB_UYInlydmFcjNmBM5XgySw&m=lA0ZgIjk9ECxp7GN0bbU1EZkBVGTyXnHWNy9TcnkiPc&s=bR7GAYzNKNEHYJknj8EWeHzd2ehtcb-6tI8lsshVNtA&e</a>=
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Note that slide 3 depicts existing RAA data elements, including those elements<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Vicky Sheckler:i think they shoudl be supported and should be mandatory for collection<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Slide 2 contains some related agreements thus far, including agreement on country code, etc<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Susan Kawaguchi:Sorry for being late!<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:Sorry I think I missed the ask, were we asked if all 3 MUST be collected? I do not support registrant street address being collected<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Sorry I meant slide 3 contains some related agreements (not slide 2)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:I sort of can't see how this could fail to be collected, but I confess I don't care
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Chuck asked whether anyone thinks the RDS should not support postal address or phone (regardless of policy on collection)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Vicky Sheckler:they should be supported by the RDS<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:Ok, I am okay with it being "supported" - not necessarily collected.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:@Ayden: what is the difference you're suggesting?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:i don't agree with phone number collection ;<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:is "supported" to mean "optionally collected"?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:@Andrew: If a registrant does not wish to provide the data, I think the system should accomodate that [leaving aside the question of whether or not it will be mandatory as a policy].<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Vicky Sheckler:@agree w/ alan, and apologies to all for missing the last several calls.
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:Yes, that is what I meant @Andrew. "supported" = "optionally collected"
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:so "support" is "possible to collect ". got it<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:@Andrew, supported simply means there is a data element defined, Chuck wishes to consider collection requirements separately<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:the data element is _already_ defined because it's in both rdap and epp
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:I'm not sure what "must be collected" means. Any old thing entered in the field or validating?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:it drives me bonkers that we imagine we can do something about that. it's just a question of whether they may be exposed and whether they must be collected
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:@MHammer - validation policies are not yet being deliberated on, collection in any of our WG agreements to date does not imply validation<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:not 'must be collected', but also 'may be collected'<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> steve metalitz:@Ayden, there are far more people on this call than respond to the polls typically .....<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:@Andrew, a data element defined in today's systems may not be end up being required in a next-gen RDS - what Chuck is asking is whether any RDS is required to support these data elements<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:@Steve, but with polls, you have more time to ponder te question than on this call<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:i don't see the importance of collecting the phone number ; as user I registered many domains names but I never see the importance and nobody contacted me during the differences issues
only by email <o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):@Lisa: keep in mind, though, that EPP and RDAP are the tools we have available today. A policy without implementation support won't be very useful.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Yes, but on a call you have a chance for give and take, and discussion with other members, a necessity in reaching consensus. In a poll, you're only listening to yourself. Some people like that,
I guess.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Vicky<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Agree with Vicky.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:i don't see the importance of collecting the phone number ; as user I registered many domains names but I never see the importance and nobody contacted me during the differences issues
only by email <o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:@Greg, that is why we discuss here, and then poll<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Krishna Seeburn - Kris:agree with vicky<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> steve metalitz:+1 Vicky<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:If collection is "mandatory", then I would propose that there be some standard required verbiage explaining why it is required and collected.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Proposed WG Agreement (to be confirmed by poll): The RDS must support Registrant Postal Address. Similar poll question for Registrant Phone Number.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:Address I agree with mandatory. Phone number I think is useful but not necessarily mandatory.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Tim O'Brien:phone number should be manditory<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:I do not believe that there is any regulation about support for possibly collecting something
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:+1 Volker - need to see this legal review<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Disagree with Volker. We should first determine what should be in the database, and then see if there are any hurdles to doing so.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Note that WG's charter envisions legal review of WG's recommendations on requirements and policy.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:some time we can make the difference between postal address vs postal code address ;here in Chad most of time people don't know their correct infos about the address (street number
,avenue ...)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:at this poimnt, anything we 'require' is merely a wish list with no idea if this is realizable\<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:We are slicing the salami thinner and thinner.... The highest level question is what should be collected.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:should we not save our energy
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:and exclude anything we cannot even required for inclusion?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:require<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:we are approaching micron thickness of salami, indeed
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Lost sound?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:and yes to Michele, but then we need the ability to differentiate, which we do not necessarily have<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:Volker - self declaration / identification works fine for several ccTLDs<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:The Equifax breach last week showed us how dangerous a data maximalist view is... we should be only including the bare minimum amount of data in the RDS.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:self-identification is fine<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:@Greg: Straw horse?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:Equifax is a bit different of a situation because individuals didn't provide the information to Equifax, 3rd parties provided it... in many cases without the individuals knowledge.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:I'm happy with data minimalism. but it seems that contact of people for legal purposes is part of the point of having a registry
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:+1 to what @Andrew Sullivan wrote<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:and therefore address is to be collected
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:No one ever needed my personal details for my personal domain names for legitimate reasons.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Dick leaning:+1 andrew<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:@Volker: that's an absurd argument. nobody ever served me either, but that doesn't mean they don't need to be able<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:My registrar seems to contact me using various items of personal information. Seems legitimate to me.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:to<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Dick leaning:contact details dont need to be personal
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:The fact that you haven't been served legal notice, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen quite frequently.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:do<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:The Equifax breach is just one in a long list of horrendous breaches
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:breaches are a problem. nobody disagrees with that<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Metalitz<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:@Andrew: it is not absurd. no one shuld be able to connect to me unless I want them to be able to. I am not doing anything wrong, after all<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Equifax shows us that failing to keep up with software patches and generally failing to be diligent are. a problem.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:The more data we keep in the RDS, whether access is gated or not, the more attractive a target it is to adversaries to attempt to breach.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Tim O'Brien:"I am not doing anything wrong" is a falicy
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Volker, if you want to be a hermit, there are ways available to do that. But hermit should not be our base case.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:IP-rights advocates and web sherrifs (?) are throwing out the baby with the bath by making rules that they intend to help them catch a few bad guys at the cost of the general registrants<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:@Volker No. if you want to own or lease certain kinds of things people need to know your contact info
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:no they do not<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Dick leaning:people may want to contct you because you doing things right Volker - why so negative - so how does your tax guys contcat you?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:Dick - not through my whois data<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:andrew - sure, and in every such case, the collection of my data is legally mandated by law or statute<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:Volker, some jurisdictions may consider a valuable domain name taxable property.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:if i buy a car, there is a law that regulates that i must register it<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:if I buy land, there is a law that regulates that i must register that<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:if I buy a domain - npp law<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:npp?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:so your argument is severely flaw because the legal basis is entirely different<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:npp=no<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Volker, I'm not so narrow-minded to think those are the only reasons for collecting and making this info available. You shouldn't be either, even though it provides you with a punching bag that
is popular in some circles.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:if youu want such a law, lobby for it in washington, berlin, paris, gdublin<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Should we devolve this to national law? Be careful what you wish for.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:I believe the Peoples Republic of China has such a law.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:nicde ad hominem, Greg, but stick to the argument please<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Dick leaning:Am concerned that if we dont get this right through this process that they may well be law in the future - so what do we want
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:You were the one who cited babies and bath water.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:Michael Hammer - the Chinese government is forcing registrars + registries to get licensed etc., if they want to operate there<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Chuck, the slide suggests alternative framing - just substitute the list of Postal Address elements for "Registrant Phone + Extension" for similar possible agreements on postal address<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:@Lisa: See, in Cjhina, there is a law<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:in Germany, there isn't<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:1A on slide 10?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:But in Germany all companies have to disclose the physical address + directors in electronic communications
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:more than we have to do
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:@Michele: On the website, not in Whois<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Farell FOLLY:agree with andrew<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:we have to do the company address + number<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:Volker - yes I know<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:One key reason for global private sector led policy making is to avoid devolving issues to national governments.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> steve metalitz:currently, in the case of privacy registrations, the phone number collected woudl be that of the privacy service<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:For a privacy registration, the privacy provider's address and phone go in the Registrant Address and Phone fields today<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Farzaneh Badii:so, I didn't know phone numbers are so relevant now a days. what if someone doesn't have a phone number!
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Steve<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Private sector = non-government<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:Steve - in the public directory - yes<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:For a proxy registration, the proxy's address and phone go in the Registrant Address and Phone fields<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:In the RDS <o:p>
</o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:the argument from the law is, I think, an error. this is not a government regulated environment unlike auto and land registries
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:That is the key difference between privacy services and proxy services<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> steve metalitz:but the point Michele and I were discussing is the circumstance in whihc the customer's phone number/address could be (1) used for relaypurposes or (2) disclosed under certain circumstances.
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:Steve - yes - but the responsiblity to handle that is with the PP provider not the RDS
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:again, however, I don't really care & won't express a preference
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:Agreed - Proxy registration.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:My apologies for being late.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:You didn't miss anything. :-)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:People are more likely to have an email address than a postal address...<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:I think JG's point is good: n of m contact elements is a good model
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Farzaneh Badii:well domain name registrant prolly has an email address ...
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Farzaneh Badii:also a homeless person might want to have a domain name ...<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Note this WG already has an agreement requiring at least one email address at minimum<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> steve metalitz:@Jim we have already tentiatvely decided that e-mail address must be collected (#32 on slide 3)
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Depends what people you are talking about. There are a couple billion people on the other side of the digital divide. Most of them live somewhere, or at least have the ability to collect mail
somewhere.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:That agreement is phrased similar to 2a) here<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:I am struggling to imagine the world in which someone homeless (as opposed to displaced, note) wants a domain name
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Homeless people can have postal addresses.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Farzaneh Badii:well nomadic tribes don't have mailing address and they have always had trouble with court order.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Andrew<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Farzaneh Badii:not everywhere Greg
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Sadly, many need them to collect assistance checks.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:@Greg: Can have, but do all?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:There is a difference between contactability and contactability for legal purposes.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Well, this is the reason we collect multiple types of contact info, to maximize the chance of contactibility.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Andrew Sullivan:I have to drop to join my airplane in departing. bye all.
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:Safe travels Andrew.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Volker, there are no absolutes.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Farzaneh Badii:so we are not obliging them to provide mailing address?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:We are discussing the alternatives.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:@Greg: unless it comes to the wish list for whois requirements<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:;-)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Herb Waye Ombuds:must depart.... have a great day everyone.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:I have no wish list. Merely requirements.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan::-)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:in our case here in Chad we don't have the cartography of correct address and now the Gov is working to have resolve the problem ; when you ask someone postal address he will give you
only the area name (near to ...)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Maybe we should ask the registrant to indicate the best way to contact them.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Farzaneh Badii:oh that's a good idea Greg
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:it's so hard to have the full correct address so country name ,city name and avenue name is fine
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Note the phrasing in 2a/b refers to contact roles - this was used to in the agreement on email to allow contact roles to determine what data elements are required for each role<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:For example, postal address might be required for a contact used for legal purposes<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Alan Greenberg:@Abdeldjalili, let's not get caught up on what the components of a mailing address are .I have relatives in small town in Ireland where the formal mailing addressis their name and the name of
the town and country. Period. Inmy part of the word, a vail mailing address was (and perhaps still is, Name and the term "General Delivery" which meant I was responsible to pick it up.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> James Galvin (Afilias):@greg - that is useful information but nonetheless there may be contact methods we require, for example, a legal purpose may require postal addresses even if that is not how you want
to be contacted.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Alan Greenberg:(sorry for extra I on name!)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Krishna Seeburn - Kris:+ 1 james makes perfect sense<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:@James,, I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that stating a preference could maximize contactibility. If another method is required, the preference would not stop that. I often tell people
the best way to reach me is my cellphone. But I still collect my mail every day.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> James Galvin (Afilias):@alan - funny thing about postal addresses - we have "western" bias in what such things look like. My position lately is that postal address should be an unstructured "text box" for
global applicability. A service may parse that and may normalize an address, but requiring that seems impossible in the general case.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Alan, that allows us to slice the salami to sub-micron levels.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:Is legal service a legitimate purpose of the collection of whois data? the registrars can perform legal service, and as I have pointed out many times, the distinction between what ICANN requires
a registrar to collect, and what one has to collect for the RDS is different.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:@Alan thanks for that clarification ;<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:If this group were in charge of evolution, we would all still be single-celled organisms.... :-)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Tim O'Brien:lol @greg<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:@Alan, as Alan says, RAA states that certain postal address fields may left blank if not available (not applicable in a given country)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:I need to drop<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michele Neylon:see you all soon<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:Always the optimist, Greg.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:Is there a rough ETA for when this legal advice might be shared with the wider WG?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:I suppose the survival of said single-celled organisms is a form of optimism, Michael.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> David Cake:There is a well known document about problms with things technical people are inclined be believe about addresses
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> David Cake:https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:@Ayden, an update was given in last week's call - expected before end of this month<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Ayden Férdeline:Thanks<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Alan Greenberg:@Stephanie, I would think that having the registrar perform the legal delivery would be ok, just as we more explicitly fo for privacy/proxy providers. But then we have the question of whether
the registrar is willing to take on that responsibility.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:@Alan for P/P providers, that's a value add service....<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Note that slides 12-13 give EWG definitions for some of these additional proposed data elements<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:I am sure registrars are not keen on it, but there is a big question as to whether ICANN can claim a purpose for data collection, use and disclosure as being service of information for law
enforcement purposes.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:The DPAs pointed that out in Copenhagen.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Question: Why might any of these additional data elements be useful to include in the RDS?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Note that Registrant Contact ID is an existing RAA data element, not a proposed addition<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:I think holding off is a great idea, till we see the legal opinions.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Sara Bockey:Agree with Stephanie. I think we need to wait on this.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Tim O'Brien:those are another data point on how legit or potetial malicious a domain may or could be - historically, there are some registrants that are more unsavory than others<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:I do not agree with waiting for the legal opinion.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:We can arrange for an overview of the EWG's concept of pre-validated contacts, when the time is appropriate for that<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Michael Hammer:Waiting for Godot?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:That was because we asked them rather elementary questions.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:@GregS, I think you are saying this WG needs to define needs first, then apply data protection laws to determine constraints on meeting those needs (purposes)?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:Which the DPAs had already answered<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:Speak for yourself Greg, I am part of the privacy enforcement group!<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Lisa<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:Greg, you are going to be so happy once we include privacy into the application. Everyone is going to be happy, happy people<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Stephanie, you may be personally, but as a group that is not our mandate.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:bye bye i need to leave because here it's time to pray ;<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:I want to be a happy people.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:it is our mandate to build a legal system though<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:We are, however, a multistakeholder community who care about respect for law......correct?\<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan::-) :-) :-) :-)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Chuck, it would not appear that #31 is impacted by data protection laws (Server Status)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:build a system that is legal, i meant<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:I absolutely said that our system has to comply with law. Not sure why others feel the need to state that as counterpoint. But if you're agreeing with me on that point, thanks!<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:A kumbaya moment.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:Failure to define the purpose has been designated as the key problem forever.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:"An animal often confused with dolphins"?<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Alan Greenberg:We THOUGHT it would be easier to avoid purpose for the moment, but I am starting to recognize that it was a mistake.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:The EWG documented existing purposes, and then defined contacts (and elements withinn contacts) for each purpose. What the EWG didn't do is decide which of today's purposes should be legitimate
beyond identifying a clearly illegitimate purpose (abuse of data by cybercriminals)<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Alan Greenberg:I have to drop off now to prepare for another meeting.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Alan Greenberg:Bye all.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:my time here is also gone<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Greg Shatan:Bye!<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Volker Greimann:bye<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:Bye!<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Julie Bisland:The next call will take place on Wednesday, 20 September 2017 at 05:00 UTC for 90 minutes.
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Tim O'Brien:good suggestion Chuck<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Staff can take that action to distribute<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Lisa Phifer:Action is for any WG members who wishes to volunteer to do so on the mailing list in the next 24 hours, to draft possible WG agreements from this call<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Stephanie Perrin:I will volunteer for that drafting group.
<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Amr Elsadr:Thanks Stephanie.<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span class="msoIns"><ins> Krishna Seeburn - Kris:bye...<o:p></o:p></ins></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>