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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I actually think
everyone is correct here, and if you all agree with me then I
will go apply for a job at the UN, they seem to need help.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">1. First, I am not
sure exactly what Fab was quoting me on, but I think we need
to have some idea what ICANN is saying to the DPAs. As indicated,
there is a Board member and ICANN VP travelling to Hong Kong,
to be on a panel with the EDPS and the UN special rapporteur
at a conference of the world data commissioners last week in
September....surely we might get a little look at their
speeches to inform ourselves? I have read Goran's letter to
Buttarelli and am still wondering what that is about.....unless
it is to follow up on meetings which we have not heard about.
So all I was asking for was a wee bit more transparency as to
what is going on. Unfortunately CHuck was cutting out in his
response, but I gather he was not wiser than I as to what is
going on. Perhaps Marika could inquire and get back to us?<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">2. We in the GNSO
Council have been told there will be a meeting in Brussels of
a select few, to talk to the DPAs, in early October. Still no
date. I don't find that acceptable, and again I think we have
a right to know what is being said/negotiated. Naturally I
would like to be there as the NCSG rep, given the amount of
research I have done on this issue, but if we don't find out
soon it will have to be somebody else.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">3. This PDP should
continue along its course, but hopefully soon, a little better
informed by the legal analysis which the leadership team has
received. That ought to speed up our process, in my view.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">4. While I am of the
view that the RAA and the Registry contracts are full of
policy issues that deserve attention, I do agree with Volker
that interpreting the expression "compliance with local law"
or its variants in the RAA ought to be left up to them. And
that, as you all know by now, in my opinion means a much more
private WHOIS, fewer international data transfers, and greater
authentication of third party data recipients. The fact that
we have been arguing about these very issues since 1998
continues to stun and fascinate me.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">5. If anyone is
meeting with the Easter Bunny, please bring chocolate to Abu.
Looks like it is going to be a strenuous meeting. Lindt will
be fine.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">cheers Stephanie</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-09-22 12:27, Volker Greimann
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:36fe70c6-bb14-7160-7666-29b9c171e027@key-systems.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>The community does not have any active role to play when it
comes to the interpretation and enforcement of ICANN contracts
and international law. This is an issue that contracted parties
will have to work out with ICANN. To the contrary, I find it
very, very disturbing that certain interest groups believe they
have a role to play here.<br>
</p>
<p>Once the fallout becomes cleared and it has been determined
which policies and obligations are problematic, the comunity
comes back in and can start working on replacement policies.
GDPR will have a profound impact on RDS, as current practices
simply do not work anymore. While some tout consent as the
solve-all, be reminded that consent must be free, informed, and
can be revoked at any time, without consequence to the service
being provided. <br>
</p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 22.09.2017 um 18:19 schrieb Kiran
Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:893d2651fea04a74bd58fddce1858ad0@DCA-EXCH2.mm-ads.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Fab,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks for
your insights into this. You raise a really interesting
and important point. I tend to agree with you that the
lack of community engagement in the GDPR-preparedness
discussions is very very disturbing. I’m not sure I agree
that it should be conflated with the RDS PDP. I see the
GDPR discussions as related to Whois “as is” if you will.
I see the RDS group as dealing with the future of Whois,
that is creating an “ideal” (or as ideal as possible
considering we govern by committee) system. If
anything, I think RDS should suspend its work until we
understand more fully the implications of the GDPR on
Whois…. but I don’t think the RDS discussions have a place
in the GDPR discussions. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">That said, I
do think we have a ton of experts in this group, and we
should probably all be participating in whatever capacity
we can in both discussions. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I hope that
makes sense and that I’m appropriately understanding what
your concerns are. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Kiran<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">Kiran Malancharuvil<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">Policy <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">MarkMonitor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">415.222.8318 (t)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">415.419.9138 (m)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><a
href="http://www.markmonitor.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.markmonitor.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 22, 2017 8:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Andrew Sullivan <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><ajs@anvilwalrusden.com></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy
Commissioners<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Appreciate this feedback, Andrew.
Simply put, my concern is that these independent and
misinformed conversations will result in bad decision making
that will run counter to our efforts here in this
duly-constituted PDP WG that is following the standard ICANN
processes for developing policy -- if not render them
useless altogether. Which in turn highlights my earlier
comment that this side-show effort from ICANN runs counter
to the bottom up / standard ICANN processes for developing
policy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Maybe it's just me making a mountain
out of a molehill, but Stephanie echoing these concerns on
the last call encouraged me to reach out to my fellow WG
members to see if others share the concern and wanted to act
on it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Others? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan<br>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:09 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations
with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 02:51:44PM
+0000, Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> I couldn’t agree more with
Stephanie and find it incredible that ICANN, despite our
ongoing efforts and the plethora of published community
concerns, are continuing with the approach of rushing to
discussions with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
“half-cocked.” Putting aside the apparent widely shared
view that this approach is misinformed and dangerous, it’s
simply redundant of and does not take advantage of our work
within this PDP process -- one could even say that it runs
counter to the bottom up and community led initiative on
RDS/WHOIS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I don't understand what the problem is
supposed to be. We are a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">duly-constituted PDP WG that is
following the standard ICANN processes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">for developing policy. If other parts
of ICANN want to talk to data<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">protection and privacy commissioners,
or activists in favour of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">publishing all personal data available
in the universe, or privacy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">activists who think the DNS should be
closed in favour of onion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">routing, or the committee of the
Present King of France and the Easter<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Bunny, why should we care? In the
event (for which I have diminshing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">hope) that we publish a report that is
actionable by the GNSO, the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">ordinary ICANN policy mechanisms will
grind forward no matter what<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">meetings people have had.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">We can best contribute to that end, in
my opinion, by focussing on<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">getting done the work that we are
supposed to be doing, rather than<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">worrying about all the other things
other people might be doing. By<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">concentrating on this and making some
progress, we might even reduce<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">the temptation of others to second
guess this process. At the rate we<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">are currently moving, we appear to be
destined to deliver something<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">right after heat death of the
universe, and I suggest that that pace<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">is partly because there is no issue on
which people are willing to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">focus, come to a clear conclusion, and
then let that conclusion stand.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I therefore urge that we focus on our
task and not make our job harder<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">than it already is by attending to
outside distractions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">A<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Andrew Sullivan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><a
href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
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