<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><blockquote type="cite"><p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">"While some tout consent as the solve-all, be reminded that consent must be free, informed, and can be revoked at any time, without consequence to the service being provided. "</span></font></p></blockquote><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div>You make it sound like that is somehow difficult. It quite literally is a check box on a website. Twitter and Facebook have figured this out and they process substantially more information of a much more sensitive nature. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Saying this is overcomplicating the issue is an understatement. But I am not a registrar so enlighten me. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Exactly what would be involved at a high level of making whois privacy for free for key systems customers?<br><br>--<div>John Bambenek</div></div><div><br>On Sep 22, 2017, at 11:27, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>The community does not have any active role to play when it comes
to the interpretation and enforcement of ICANN contracts and
international law. This is an issue that contracted parties will
have to work out with ICANN. To the contrary, I find it very, very
disturbing that certain interest groups believe they have a role
to play here.<br>
</p>
<p>Once the fallout becomes cleared and it has been determined which
policies and obligations are problematic, the comunity comes back
in and can start working on replacement policies. GDPR will have a
profound impact on RDS, as current practices simply do not work
anymore. While some tout consent as the solve-all, be reminded
that consent must be free, informed, and can be revoked at any
time, without consequence to the service being provided. <br>
</p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 22.09.2017 um 18:19 schrieb Kiran
Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Fab,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks for your
insights into this. You raise a really interesting and
important point. I tend to agree with you that the lack of
community engagement in the GDPR-preparedness discussions is
very very disturbing. I’m not sure I agree that it should
be conflated with the RDS PDP. I see the GDPR discussions
as related to Whois “as is” if you will. I see the RDS
group as dealing with the future of Whois, that is creating
an “ideal” (or as ideal as possible considering we govern
by committee) system. If anything, I think RDS should
suspend its work until we understand more fully the
implications of the GDPR on Whois…. but I don’t think the
RDS discussions have a place in the GDPR discussions.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">That said, I do
think we have a ton of experts in this group, and we should
probably all be participating in whatever capacity we can in
both discussions.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I hope that
makes sense and that I’m appropriately understanding what
your concerns are.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Kiran<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">Kiran Malancharuvil<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">Policy
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">MarkMonitor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">415.222.8318 (t)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">415.419.9138 (m)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.markmonitor.com/" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.markmonitor.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 22, 2017 8:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Andrew Sullivan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com"><ajs@anvilwalrusden.com></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy
Commissioners<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Appreciate this feedback, Andrew.
Simply put, my concern is that these independent and
misinformed conversations will result in bad decision making
that will run counter to our efforts here in this
duly-constituted PDP WG that is following the standard ICANN
processes for developing policy -- if not render them useless
altogether. Which in turn highlights my earlier comment that
this side-show effort from ICANN runs counter to the bottom up
/ standard ICANN processes for developing policy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Maybe it's just me making a mountain out
of a molehill, but Stephanie echoing these concerns on the
last call encouraged me to reach out to my fellow WG members
to see if others share the concern and wanted to act on it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Others? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan<br>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:09 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations
with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 02:51:44PM
+0000, Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> I couldn’t agree more with
Stephanie and find it incredible that ICANN, despite our
ongoing efforts and the plethora of published community
concerns, are continuing with the approach of rushing to
discussions with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
“half-cocked.” Putting aside the apparent widely shared view
that this approach is misinformed and dangerous, it’s simply
redundant of and does not take advantage of our work within
this PDP process -- one could even say that it runs counter
to the bottom up and community led initiative on RDS/WHOIS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I don't understand what the problem is
supposed to be. We are a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">duly-constituted PDP WG that is
following the standard ICANN processes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">for developing policy. If other parts
of ICANN want to talk to data<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">protection and privacy commissioners, or
activists in favour of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">publishing all personal data available
in the universe, or privacy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">activists who think the DNS should be
closed in favour of onion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">routing, or the committee of the Present
King of France and the Easter<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Bunny, why should we care? In the event
(for which I have diminshing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">hope) that we publish a report that is
actionable by the GNSO, the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">ordinary ICANN policy mechanisms will
grind forward no matter what<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">meetings people have had.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">We can best contribute to that end, in
my opinion, by focussing on<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">getting done the work that we are
supposed to be doing, rather than<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">worrying about all the other things
other people might be doing. By<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">concentrating on this and making some
progress, we might even reduce<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">the temptation of others to second guess
this process. At the rate we<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">are currently moving, we appear to be
destined to deliver something<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">right after heat death of the universe,
and I suggest that that pace<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">is partly because there is no issue on
which people are willing to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">focus, come to a clear conclusion, and
then let that conclusion stand.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I therefore urge that we focus on our
task and not make our job harder<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">than it already is by attending to
outside distractions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">A<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Andrew Sullivan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwIGaQ&c=XRWvQHnpdBDRh-yzrHjqLpXuHNC_9nanQc6pPG_SpT0&r=6lUxzkhJPN5qts-Nve5TYqxoGjP81z1kCvXgsmw-MiQ&m=9eU57wIVscyGuvbIbm2BAi8LELlVrSQBl5k9N2YJxfQ&s=EWf3FrLMoZXzDzHkrW30uyrwfH-GkQk1TGt5Jc2ndKs&e" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwIGaQ&c=XRWvQHnpdBDRh-yzrHjqLpXuHNC_9nanQc6pPG_SpT0&r=6lUxzkhJPN5qts-Nve5TYqxoGjP81z1kCvXgsmw-MiQ&m=9eU57wIVscyGuvbIbm2BAi8LELlVrSQBl5k9N2YJxfQ&s=EWf3FrLMoZXzDzHkrW30uyrwfH-GkQk1TGt5Jc2ndKs&e</span></a>=
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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