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<p class="MsoNormal">I’m catching up on this thread but wanted to respond to Volker.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I disagree with Volker that the community does not have an active role to play here regarding interpretation and enforcement….the continued availability of WHOIS impacts all of us. I find it disturbing that certain interest groups feel
others should just wait around until the smoke clears before engaging. That’s not the way multi-stakeholderism works.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As for Fab’s original email I agree that it is important that we (as a working group) are not only fully informed in work and discussions related to GDPR but also have the opportunity to give input (as a community) on the engagement strategy.
As Ayden mentioned in a more recent email on this topic information on what is happening behind the scenes is lacking – even for those of us who are members of the ad-hoc working group on GDPR – and more should be done to ensure transparency.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Alex<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, September 22, 2017 at 9:28 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p style="margin-left:.5in">The community does not have any active role to play when it comes to the interpretation and enforcement of ICANN contracts and international law. This is an issue that contracted parties will have to work out with ICANN. To the contrary,
I find it very, very disturbing that certain interest groups believe they have a role to play here.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">Once the fallout becomes cleared and it has been determined which policies and obligations are problematic, the comunity comes back in and can start working on replacement policies. GDPR will have a profound impact on RDS, as current
practices simply do not work anymore. While some tout consent as the solve-all, be reminded that consent must be free, informed, and can be revoked at any time, without consequence to the service being provided.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">Volker<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Am 22.09.2017 um 18:19 schrieb Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Fab,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks for your insights into this. You raise a really interesting and important point. I tend to agree with you that the lack of community engagement in the GDPR-preparedness discussions
is very very disturbing. I’m not sure I agree that it should be conflated with the RDS PDP. I see the GDPR discussions as related to Whois “as is” if you will. I see the RDS group as dealing with the future of Whois, that is creating an “ideal” (or as ideal
as possible considering we govern by committee) system. If anything, I think RDS should suspend its work until we understand more fully the implications of the GDPR on Whois…. but I don’t think the RDS discussions have a place in the GDPR discussions.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">That said, I do think we have a ton of experts in this group, and we should probably all be participating in whatever capacity we can in both discussions.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">I hope that makes sense and that I’m appropriately understanding what your concerns are.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">Kiran</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Kiran Malancharuvil</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Policy
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">MarkMonitor</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">415.222.8318 (t)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">415.419.9138 (m)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markmonitor.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Calex_deacon%40mpaa.org%7Cff4f5833d9eb442f2fc208d501d6ed70%7C17e50b56d5dd439b962acc7ecd9ab7fe%7C0%7C0%7C636416944985628631&sdata=tUBwb10%2BqGtiHl%2Fm94ccw4t%2FWd167waNU05lHWJni9k%3D&reserved=0"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.markmonitor.com</span></a>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 22, 2017 8:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Andrew Sullivan <a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com"><ajs@anvilwalrusden.com></a>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">Appreciate this feedback, Andrew. Simply put, my concern is that these independent and misinformed conversations will result in bad decision making that will run counter to our efforts here in this duly-constituted
PDP WG that is following the standard ICANN processes for developing policy -- if not render them useless altogether. Which in turn highlights my earlier comment that this side-show effort from ICANN runs counter to the bottom up / standard ICANN processes
for developing policy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">Maybe it's just me making a mountain out of a molehill, but Stephanie echoing these concerns on the last call encouraged me to reach out to my fellow WG members to see if others share the concern and wanted to
act on it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">Others? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan<br>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:09 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 02:51:44PM +0000, Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">> I couldn’t agree more with Stephanie and find it incredible that ICANN, despite our ongoing efforts and the plethora of published community concerns, are continuing with the approach of rushing to discussions
with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners “half-cocked.” Putting aside the apparent widely shared view that this approach is misinformed and dangerous, it’s simply redundant of and does not take advantage of our work within this PDP process -- one could
even say that it runs counter to the bottom up and community led initiative on RDS/WHOIS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">I don't understand what the problem is supposed to be. We are a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">duly-constituted PDP WG that is following the standard ICANN processes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">for developing policy. If other parts of ICANN want to talk to data<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">protection and privacy commissioners, or activists in favour of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">publishing all personal data available in the universe, or privacy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">activists who think the DNS should be closed in favour of onion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">routing, or the committee of the Present King of France and the Easter<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">Bunny, why should we care? In the event (for which I have diminshing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">hope) that we publish a report that is actionable by the GNSO, the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">ordinary ICANN policy mechanisms will grind forward no matter what<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">meetings people have had.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">We can best contribute to that end, in my opinion, by focussing on<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">getting done the work that we are supposed to be doing, rather than<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">worrying about all the other things other people might be doing. By<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">concentrating on this and making some progress, we might even reduce<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">the temptation of others to second guess this process. At the rate we<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">are currently moving, we appear to be destined to deliver something<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">right after heat death of the universe, and I suggest that that pace<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">is partly because there is no issue on which people are willing to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">focus, come to a clear conclusion, and then let that conclusion stand.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">I therefore urge that we focus on our task and not make our job harder<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">than it already is by attending to outside distractions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">A<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">Andrew Sullivan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Web: <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.key-systems.net&data=02%7C01%7Calex_deacon%40mpaa.org%7Cff4f5833d9eb442f2fc208d501d6ed70%7C17e50b56d5dd439b962acc7ecd9ab7fe%7C0%7C0%7C636416944985628631&sdata=A%2BJZ1RxifRuY0T1Xdj3ttSbUsP92Acou1XyIHJKX3vU%3D&reserved=0">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.RRPproxy.net&data=02%7C01%7Calex_deacon%40mpaa.org%7Cff4f5833d9eb442f2fc208d501d6ed70%7C17e50b56d5dd439b962acc7ecd9ab7fe%7C0%7C0%7C636416944985628631&sdata=ZvWg6BUZKV9LtJIQh3RZMiLCxqCew1ZKfc9OQGwbQCk%3D&reserved=0">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keydrive.lu&data=02%7C01%7Calex_deacon%40mpaa.org%7Cff4f5833d9eb442f2fc208d501d6ed70%7C17e50b56d5dd439b962acc7ecd9ab7fe%7C0%7C0%7C636416944985628631&sdata=I2MiwQG%2BSBDkyymFz%2F7H30%2FEKcJ9D5iE9ddYKkZXRYY%3D&reserved=0">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">--------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Web: <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.key-systems.net&data=02%7C01%7Calex_deacon%40mpaa.org%7Cff4f5833d9eb442f2fc208d501d6ed70%7C17e50b56d5dd439b962acc7ecd9ab7fe%7C0%7C0%7C636416944985628631&sdata=A%2BJZ1RxifRuY0T1Xdj3ttSbUsP92Acou1XyIHJKX3vU%3D&reserved=0">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.RRPproxy.net&data=02%7C01%7Calex_deacon%40mpaa.org%7Cff4f5833d9eb442f2fc208d501d6ed70%7C17e50b56d5dd439b962acc7ecd9ab7fe%7C0%7C0%7C636416944985628631&sdata=ZvWg6BUZKV9LtJIQh3RZMiLCxqCew1ZKfc9OQGwbQCk%3D&reserved=0">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keydrive.lu&data=02%7C01%7Calex_deacon%40mpaa.org%7Cff4f5833d9eb442f2fc208d501d6ed70%7C17e50b56d5dd439b962acc7ecd9ab7fe%7C0%7C0%7C636416944985628631&sdata=I2MiwQG%2BSBDkyymFz%2F7H30%2FEKcJ9D5iE9ddYKkZXRYY%3D&reserved=0">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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