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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">It happens oftener
than you might think Alan! and I agree, the EU law is not the
most stringent, although it receives the most flack....<span
class="moz-smiley-s1"><span>:-)</span></span><br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">SP</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-09-26 10:08, Alan Greenberg
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:19550059-FC2F-433F-9F21-1EDDCADC803F@mcgill.ca">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
So the non-expert and the expert agree!<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On September 26, 2017 8:34:53 AM EDT,
Stephanie Perrin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"><stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca></a>
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">With all due
modesty, I am an expert in privacy legislation, having
worked in this field since 1984 in most capacities (and
most particularly, directing the drafting of the federal
law here in Canada). TBDF provisions appear in most
data protection law, they are also covered in many
national constitutions and it is therefore impossible to
actually separate out TBDF from any privacy impact
assessment of ICANN policy and implementation. I don't
think an explicit mention in our Charter is at all
necessary, we cannot examine privacy without looking at
TBDF.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Stephanie Perrin</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-09-25 09:24, Alan
Greenberg wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:70a3524c-f3d3-49de-9e35-744d0add7712@EXHUB2010-2.campus.MCGILL.CA">
I am far from an expert on privacy legislation. GDPR is
probably as good a base to look at as any, and perhaps
better than some. I do not think we are in a position to
survey all country's privacy legislation to ensure that we
are in compliance, and even if we did, laws change over
time. So we will need to put in place a framework that can
adapt to local requirements. <br>
<br>
One issue that I do not think has been discussed (and is not
even mentioned in our charter) is transborder data flow.
ALthough that may be more associated with implementation, I
suspect we will have to think about it, if only to say that
implementation needs to address it. In that case, European
legislation may not be the most stringent.<br>
<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
At 25/09/2017 08:57 AM, Ayden Férdeline wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite="">Hi Erica,<br>
<br>
That is a good question. <br>
<br>
My view is that GDPR is the best baseline that we have. I
say for this for two reasons. Firstly, because the Council
of the European Union has advised the European Commission
that it cannot negotiate away privacy rights in trade
agreements. And secondly, as I touched upon in an email a
few days ago, over 100 countries now have data protection
laws, many of which were modelled after the European
Union’s 1995 Data Protection Directive. It seems
possible to me that a desire to emulate best practices
could see these laws, based upon the earlier 1995
standard, updated to reflect the standard now set by GDPR.<br>
<br>
I am happy, of course, to hear alternative perspectives on
this issue.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Ayden Férdeline<br>
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline"
moz-do-not-send="true"> linkedin.com/in/ferdeline</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite="">--------
Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy
Commissioners<br>
Local Time: 25 September 2017 1:46 PM<br>
UTC Time: 25 September 2017 12:46<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<br>
<dl>
<dd> It is clear that the PDP will have to be aware of
and plan for GDPR-like protections (and not limited
to Europe).<br>
<br>
</dd>
</dl>
<br>
Jumping back to Kris' comment, and the reference to
other privacy regulations in various countries (i.e.
South Africa), do we know for certain that GDPR is our
best baseline? For example, perhaps there is a different
regional set of regulations that are an even lower
common denominator that would ensure compliance not only
with GDPR, but other regions as well - and, hopefully,
future laws. Possibly this has been spoken about before
(I'm still rather new here), but I thought it may be
worth confirming since so much of our information flow,
generally speaking, tends to come from the US and the EU
over other regions.<br>
<br>
<dl>
<dd>Within the contect of ICANN, there is no other way
to do this but through a GNSO PDP, and hopefully we
can actually complete this and move forward. How
timely we do it will depend on how willing we are to
work together to reach consensus.<br>
<br>
</dd>
</dl>
<br>
Well said. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Erica <br>
<br>
Erica Varlese | .blog Shepherd @ KKWT<br>
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:erica@my.blog" moz-do-not-send="true">erica@my.blog</a><br>
Skype: evarlese<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Volker Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"> vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<dl>
<dd>With the new proposals for whois privacy provider
accreditation currently in the works and the costs
attached to that program both in aded requirements
that have to be followed and the accreditation cost,
this service will never be "free". <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Volker<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Am 23.09.2017 um 15:47 schrieb John Bambenek via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite=""> <dd>Is
one of there ways of exploring how to resolve
the issue including making whois privacy for
free for individual registrants?<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>-- <br>
</dd>
<dd>John Bambenek<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>On Sep 22, 2017, at 21:06, Chuck <<a
href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">consult@cgomes.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite=""> <dd>Without
in any way detracting from the concern for
ICANN transparency and the need for keeping
our PDP informed, I think it is important
for us to recognize a few things: </dd>
<dd>The GDPR is set to go into effect in May
2018. </dd>
<dd>While I am cautiously hopeful that the RDS
PDP WG will improve progress in our work,
there is no way we will be close to done by
May 2018. </dd>
<dd>In the meantime, contracted parties will
be faced with some serious conflicts between
the terms of their agreements with ICANN and
the GDPR that could result in significant
fines if they continue to comply with their
ICANN agreements. </dd>
<dd>Therefore, it does not seem unreasonable
for ICANN staff to be exploring ways to
resolve this dilemma until policy work can
be completed.<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Chuck<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd><a
name="m_1911983207652239545__MailEndCompose"
moz-do-not-send="true"></a> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>From: <a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" eudora="autourl"
moz-do-not-send="true">
mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie)<br>
</dd>
<dd>Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 8:16 AM<br>
</dd>
<dd>To: Andrew Sullivan <<a
href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>
>; <a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection
and Privacy Commissioners<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Appreciate this feedback, Andrew. Simply
put, my concern is that these independent
and misinformed conversations will result in
bad decision making that will run counter to
our efforts here in this duly-constituted
PDP WG that is following the standard ICANN
processes for developing policy -- if not
render them useless altogether. Which in
turn highlights my earlier comment that this
side-show effort from ICANN runs counter to
the bottom up / standard ICANN processes for
developing policy.<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Maybe it's just me making a mountain out
of a molehill, but Stephanie echoing these
concerns on the last call encouraged me to
reach out to my fellow WG members to see if
others share the concern and wanted to act
on it.<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Others? <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>-----Original Message-----<br>
</dd>
<dd>From: <a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" eudora="autourl"
moz-do-not-send="true">
mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan<br>
</dd>
<dd>Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:09 AM<br>
</dd>
<dd>To: <a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection
and Privacy Commissioners<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Hi,<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 02:51:44PM +0000,
Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie) wrote:<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>> I couldn’t agree more with
Stephanie and find it incredible that ICANN,
despite our ongoing efforts and the plethora
of published community concerns, are
continuing with the approach of rushing to
discussions with Data Protection and Privacy
Commissioners “half-cocked.†Putting
aside the apparent widely shared view that
this approach is misinformed and dangerous,
it’s simply redundant of and does not take
advantage of our work within this PDP
process -- one could even say that it runs
counter to the bottom up and community led
initiative on RDS/WHOIS.<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>I don't understand what the problem is
supposed to be. We are a<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>duly-constituted PDP WG that is following
the standard ICANN processes<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>for developing policy. If other parts of
ICANN want to talk to data<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>protection and privacy commissioners, or
activists in favour of<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>publishing all personal data available in
the universe, or privacy<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>activists who think the DNS should be
closed in favour of onion<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>routing, or the committee of the Present
King of France and the Easter<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Bunny, why should we care? In the event
(for which I have diminshing<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>hope) that we publish a report that is
actionable by the GNSO, the<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>ordinary ICANN policy mechanisms will
grind forward no matter what<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>meetings people have had.<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>We can best contribute to that end, in my
opinion, by focussing on<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>getting done the work that we are supposed
to be doing, rather than<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>worrying about all the other things other
people might be doing. By<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>concentrating on this and making some
progress, we might even reduce<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>the temptation of others to second guess
this process. At the rate we<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>are currently moving, we appear to be
destined to deliver something<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>right after heat death of the universe,
and I suggest that that pace<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>is partly because there is no issue on
which people are willing to<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>focus, come to a clear conclusion, and
then let that conclusion stand.<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>I therefore urge that we focus on our task
and not make our job harder<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>than it already is by attending to outside
distractions.<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Best regards,<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>A<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd> <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>-- <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Andrew Sullivan<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd><a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
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<dd>
<pre>--
<dd>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
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