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<p>In that case, I apologize for my misunderstanding.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 29.09.2017 um 17:05 schrieb allison
nixon:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACLR7wLUSua46pxgUSTrQo6YnrGX807S2ivku2R1JUmfBYa2mQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">You once again completely misrepresent me and frame
me as something i am not.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 10:54 AM,
Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi Allison,</p>
<p>it appears you belong to the school of thinking that
any means is legitimate to catch or prevent crime,
whereas I belong to the school of thinking that limits
those means the means not infringing on the rights of
third parties. That is ok, we agree to disagree and move
on. <br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013moz-cite-prefix">Am
29.09.2017 um 16:12 schrieb allison nixon:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>[Volker's mail]</div>
>>the reason why phishing, spam, and malware
never appeared in the document is because they have
nothing to do with the question of privacy rights.
Except that violating such rights exposes the data
subjects to those forms of abuse.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>False. What makes copyright violation(which was
spoken about numerous times in the doc) more
relevant than spam/fraud/phishing/malware? Who made
that determination? It was stated numerous times
that the rights of the registrant have to be weighed
against the rights of the people exposed to these
domains. Since spam, fraud, phishing, malware, are
all issues relevant to the general public, they are
relevant issues to weigh. This sounds like an
attempt to throw out an issue because no sane
counter-argument exists for it. You are once again
trolling the group with irrelevant and illogical
arguments while attempting to throw out arguments
that are relevant.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Again, I expect a retraction and apology. Not accepting my
argument does not entitle anyone to name-calling or
questioning my motives, especially when the person making
the allegations is doing the very same thing he/she is
alleging me of doing to invalidate my arguments. <br>
<br>
Anyway, your comment has nothing to do with the point I
was making. No one is making one form of abuse more
relevant than another. Yet when weighing the prevention of
abuse against the legal rights of uninvolved third
parties, those third parties win, unless there is a legal
justification that these rights may be infringed upon or
set aside. <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[Volker's mail]<br>
</div>
<div>>>I agree that this group does not make
policy for ccTLDs, but we do not operate in a
vacuum. ccTLDs - due to the variety of their
approaches - have been an ideal policy testing
ground and I see no reasons not to take what works
from the various ccTLD policies. If something works
well for .eu, why should it not also work well for
.africa, for example? or .com?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Quite a few ccTLDs require additional identifying
information to prove that the person is a resident
of that country or that there is a physical
corporate presence within the country. We could
follow that model if you're so interested in that-
quite a few ccTLDs have very low rates of abuse due
to the elaborate checks in place to resolve the
registrant to a known person or entity. Are you
willing to front the costs? You aren't, because you
are trolling.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I am aware of these models, we are specialized in serving
next to all ccTLDs after all. In most cases such
verification does not occur at the time of registration
though, and when it does, it is usually not a European
registry. And yes, there are even those where it is, and
in those cases, that information, while collected, is for
the exclusive use of the registry and not being published.
And finally, where such publication does occur despite
privacy regulations being in place as well, there always
is a legal basis for it, not the whim of the registry.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[Volker's mail]<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>>>it is interesting that despite studies
showing there is no correlation between domain abuse
and use of domain privacy, the same argument is
being raised again and again.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A convenient misinterpretation of the facts. It's
not a reliable indicator, it is one factor out of
many, and it is a significant factor. No single
indicator is a reliable indicator. you are once
again trolling.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
It seems you are really running out of good arguments if
this baseless and unwarranted accusation is all you have
to bring to the table to counter my argument.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Volker<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:05
AM, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>I think you mistake his point. Domain whois
data IS useful in fighting abuse according to
everyone who actually fights abuse. The report
referenced making the statement it did shows
there remains a misunderstanding on that
point. <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013h5">
<div><br>
On Sep 29, 2017, at 3:20 AM, Volker
Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p>Hi Theo,</p>
<p>it is interesting that despite
studies showing there is no
correlation between domain abuse and
use of domain privacy, the same
argument is being raised again and
again. from my own experience of
looking at the abuse complaints we
receive, I note that only a small
fraction of abusive registrations use
our privacy functions. In most cases,
harvested real data is used instead. <br>
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div
class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> <br>
<a
class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/sadag-final-09aug17-en.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/en/syste<wbr>m/files/files/sadag-final-<wbr>09aug17-en.pdf</a><br>
<br>
This report mentions: The usage of
Privacy or Proxy Services by itself is
not a reliable indicator of abuse.<br>
<br>
Thanks again, <br>
<br>
Theo <br>
<br>
Again it is clear now, thanks all. <br>
<div
class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625moz-cite-prefix">On
28-9-2017 20:50, Dotzero wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>To add to what Allison has
indicated, websites do
analysis of these sorts of
datapoints for evaluating
transactions for fraud and
potential abuse. For example,
signups form domains that have
private registrations have a
very high propensity to be
related to abuse. Signups and
visits to our websites from IP
addresses belonging to hosting
providers have an even higher
correlation with abuse (how
many endusers browse the web
from severs in datacenters?).<br>
<br>
</div>
This is not police action, it is
organizations protecting
themselves, their other users
and the internet at large from
abusive activity.<br>
<br>
</div>
Michael Hammer<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu,
Sep 28, 2017 at 2:33 PM, allison
nixon <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Reputation is
based on a lot of different
points not just contents of
WHOIS data. If the .EU TLD
can keep its customer base
clean, there isn't much need
for WHOIS data for the most
part, however this group
doesn't make policy for
ccTLDs. For other TLDs that
this group does recommend
policy for, for example,
.XYZ, which boasts a
greater-than-90-percent rate
of maliciousness, any
legitimate domain in that
space will need some other
points of reputation to make
up for that. WHOIS is part
of that, including the age,
and actual contact details.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That said, WHOIS data
is an important part of
tracing ownership and it
can have consequences for
the registrant.<br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Recently we had to
deal with a ccTLD of
.ir that was being
used to control large
botnets. The current
and historical WHOIS
data showed signs that
a legitimate
registrant's account
was stolen to do this.
Thus, when the
complaint was sent to
the registrar, the
registrant was not
accused of running
botnets, but instead
the registrar was
alerted to an abuse of
the service and they
could take action
accordingly. If the
ownership of this
domain could not be
traced, and if there
were not skilled
investigators on the
other end, would the
registrant have been
in danger of going to
an Iranian prison? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It turns out, the
ccTLD of .ir was
specifically chosen
because the criminals
thought the poor
international
relations would hamper
law enforcement
action. However WHOIS
and the transparency
it provides allowed
people to discover the
truth and prevent
serious problems. By
locking up WHOIS
behind court orders,
these cross-border
issues will become
worse.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, to be clear
since a lot of people
can't seem to tell the
difference, everything
we did was well within
the bounds of civil
action, we weren't
"pretending to be the
police" or any of the
other things people in
this group accuse
security companies of
doing when they deal
with malware. Any
member of the public
can file an abuse
complaint.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625HOEnZb">
<div
class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at
2:10 PM, theo geurts <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000"
bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Allison, <br>
</p>
<p>Does this
problem also
exsist with TLDs
like .EU, .NL,
.DE, .FR just to
name a few
ccTLDs?</p>
<p>Curious, <br>
</p>
<p>Theo <br>
</p>
<div>
<div
class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728h5">
<br>
<div
class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728m_-8357489614026739257moz-cite-prefix">On
28-9-2017
19:42, allison
nixon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>>>
So, I can see
a day that if
privacy
advocates
and/or EU
legislation
fears prevent
such a Best
Practice as
proper WHOIS
records, the
service
providers will
simply choose
practices,
such as 'you
cannot access
our service
unless you
have public
whois
information
available'.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's
already
happening. Try
sending an
e-mail using a
domain behind
WHOIS privacy.
Some anti-spam
systems drop
it straight in
the garbage
because WHOIS
privacy is
already a
negative
reputation
point. If
WHOIS gets
shut down, I
fully expect
groups like
Spamhaus,
M3AAWG, APWG,
etc, to
publish a set
of guidelines
that
registrants
need to abide
by in order to
send mail, or
be accessible
by people
behind
corporate
firewalls that
block based on
reputation.
ICANN must
understand
that they are
at risk of
losing
relevancy if
they want to
take this
hardline
approach,
because if a
law breaks the
continued
functioning of
a network, the
network will
route around
it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Look at
the "cookies"
EU law. Did
that actually
stop any
websites from
using cookies?
No, it just
created a
popup that no
one reads but
everyone
clicks through
to visit the
website.
Because
breaking
cookies breaks
websites. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>>>Some
of us have
real jobs
too..</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>which is
the main
reason why i
can't spend 8
hours every
day watching
this group,
unlike some
people here
who have been
active in this
group for
years now. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My
response to
Chuck's email
earlier, I
bolded the
responses and
tagged the
start and end
of my replies
for clarity:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">"independent
answers to the
same questions
we asked the
European data
protection
experts
earlier in the
year"<br>
[Chuck Gomes]
That was a
request from
WG members who
felt that the
DP experts
might be
biased. The
questions were
developed by
the WG. There
were two
primary
reasons for
using the same
questions: 1)
both groups
would be
responding to
the same
questions and
therefore make
it easy to
compare; 2)
the questions
were approved
by the WG.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b><allison>I
don't think
anyone accused
the DP experts
of being
biased. The
objection was
that the
questions
themselves
were biased.
The words
"phishing" and
"spam" and
"malware"
never once
appeared in
this entire
document,
despite being
major core
issues. The
only abuse
issues that
were focused
on were in
relation to
intellectual
property
violation and
harassment of
women, both of
which are not
the major
issues most of
us deal with
on a daily
basis(not to
belittle them
but they are
generally not
the reason why
we are here
today). The
word "fraud"
was mentioned
once in a
question and
then never
directly
addressed in
the response.</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>Additionally,
my entire
industry was
grossly
misrepresented
in question
#6. None of us
operate with
police powers,
and none of us
pretend to
have any. When
we submit a
complaint to a
registrar
about one of
their
customers
breaking the
law, the
illegality of
the act
provides
necessary
justification
for the
registrar to
drop the
customer
without a
refund. This
is not
prosecution of
a crime, and
claiming it is
such is a lie.
Evidence of
breaking the
law is
necessary
because
registrars
aren't just
going to take
down any
customer we
say we don't
like. I wholly
object to the
entire line
they continued
on about
cybersecurity
companies and
"quasi-police
powers",
because the
question never
differentiated
between civil
and criminal
actions and it
was therefore
misleading. </b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>None
of the
questions
addressed the
issues that
registrants
have where
their WHOIS
and other
reputation
points affect
the de-facto
functionality
of a domain,
for example a
domain's
functionality
is hampered
when it is on
blocklists. Or
if someone
sends a
complaint
against the
domain and has
no tools to
differentiate
the registrant
from the
criminal (as
registrar
accounts are
often hacked),
then the
incorrect
accusation can
also affect
the
operability of
the domain as
it is
mistakenly
taken down in
confusion.
None of the
questions ask
about
conflicts
between GDPR
and basic
network-level-functionality
of domains.</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>Also,
none of the
questions ask
if a free
no-obligation
alternative
(whois privacy
protect)
enhances the
validity of
consent given
for making
WHOIS records
public.
</allison></b></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">So
we weren't
allowed to ask
questions of
these legal
experts? You
know, they
can't
magically
divine all
legitimate use
cases. The
session with
the EU data
protection
experts
earlier this
year is the
exact same one
we objected to
because anti
abuse use
cases got
exactly zero
representation.
So why choose
that exact set
of questions
again
especially
since an
entire group
of people have
joined the
group
afterwards(actually,
due to this
specific
problem of
lack of
representation)?
And then label
it "final",
really.<br>
[Chuck Gomes]
We didn’t ask
them to
consider use
cases except
as they were
relevant to
the questions
we asked; that
is our job and
we prepared a
list of those
a long time
ago. We asked
them to focus
on their
understanding
of European
Data
Protection
law. Our WG
has a good mix
of people that
use RDS data
for different
uses.</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div><b><allison>And
his answers
are borderline
useless. The
scenarios
presented were
extremely
poor, and not
reflecting
today's
Internet and
the problems
network
operators
face. For
example, when
he writes
"This means
that the term
'vital
interest' is
to be
interpreted as
referring to
an
individual’s
life, health,
safety, or
other such
interest that
is essential
to their
physical
wellbeing", he
goes on to
talk about IP
violations,
the rights of
a child, the
economic
interests of a
search engine,
finally
concluding "we
believe that
the </b><b>conditions
for using the
'legitimate
interests'
legal basis
would not be
satisfied".</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>That's
a complete
misrepresentation
of the
interests at
stake here.
The issue at
hand is not
the economic
interests of
one company
nor about mere
copyright
infringement.
The WHOIS data
resource is
used to combat
all types of
fraud,
international
espionage,
rigging of
elections, and
so many
hostile
attacks. Some
of these
attacks,
especially
DDOS,
frequently
threaten basic
functionality
of the
Internet. It
has an
international
strategic
value and
promotes
lawful
behavior far
more than it
hurts. It's
used to create
cleaner, safer
networks.
There are
countless
documented
instances
where WHOIS
played a key
role and where
the
replacement
system would
have allowed
the malicious
behavior to
continue. All
of these facts
have been
conveniently
left out of
the question,
and since the
lawyer can't
be expected to
know all this,
he has no
choice but to
conclude that
the legitimate
interests
provided are
too weak.
</allison></b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Havent
gone through
it yet, will
do so as i get
time.
Expecting to
see the same
result one can
expect when
one doesn't
represent
entire groups
of
constituencies.<br>
[Chuck Gomes]
What do you
mean by
representing
‘entire groups
of
constituencies’?
Do you
represent an
entire
constituency?
Are you aware
of any
constituencies
who are not
represented in
the WG? If
so, please
encourage them
to
participate.</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b><allison>Dozens
of people
joined this
mailing list
after numerous
events
demonstrated
that this
working group
did not
consider the
overall well
being of the
Internet, and
had a
completely
skewed idea of
the problems
the Internet
faces today.
People were
outraged that
this group was
going in the
direction it
was going,
ignoring how
the Internet
actually
works. The
fact that
these
questions were
chosen- and
the fact that
the new
membership(especially
those that
joined after
the questions
were initially
asked) were
not given any
opportunity to
provide input
on questions
to the lawyer-
does not
reflect well
on the
leadership of
this working
group. Even
when the
original
questions were
created, as
far as I can
tell, only
people
physically
present at
that meeting
had any chance
to provide
input. For
those of us
with jobs in
operations,
being
ever-present
for this
working group
is impossible,
and none of us
have the
stamina that
some of the
people here
have, because
we are busy
working. </b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>At its
most
charitable
interpretation,
the choice of
these specific
questions
could be an
innocent
oversight or
miscommunication.
At its least
charitable, it
looks like
ICANN's money
was wasted on
a procedural
trick to keep
facts out of
the
conversation
and continue
to push a
narrow agenda.</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>People
from numerous
unrelated
Internet
companies and
law firms
flooded this
group earlier
this year once
sunshine was
shed on this
group's
activities.
Maybe that's
important.
Please take it
seriously.
</allison></b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Wed, Sep 27,
2017 at 6:22
PM, Michael
Peddemors <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:michael@linuxmagic.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">michael@linuxmagic.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">IMHO,
If ICANN
cannot figure
out how to
make a proper
functioning
WHOIS policy,
we have to
remember that
the community
at large will,
and then
simply, ICANN
will loose
relevance on
this issue.<br>
<br>
No one passed
a law that a
mail server
had to have a
functioning
PTR record,
(well yes,
some
international
spam
legislations
clearly
spelled out
the need for
clearly
specifying the
operator) but
if you want to
send email
today,
functionally
you need a PTR
record.<br>
<br>
Only problem
is, that often
it is the
biggest
players that
set those
standards, and
it is the role
of
organizations
like ICANN to
level the
field, and
make sure that
directions
aren't
dictated by
the biggest
players on the
block, and
never more so
in a world of
consolidation
and cloud
providers.<br>
<br>
I think it was
Yahoo that was
one of the
first big
players to
simply not
accept
connections
from IP(s)
with no PTR,
and I know we
were one of
the early
adopters to
that
strategy..<br>
<br>
So, I can see
a day that if
privacy
advocates
and/or EU
legislation
fears prevent
such a Best
Practice as
proper WHOIS
records, the
service
providers will
simply choose
practices,
such as 'you
cannot access
our service
unless you
have public
whois
information
available'.<br>
<br>
It would be
far better if
ICANN can
understand the
importance of
that need, and
make a
statement that
everyone can
get behind and
point to, that
levels that
field, in
'spite' of
possible
contradictory
privacy
information.<br>
<br>
Let's just
simple keep
these two
conversations
separate, one
should NOT
affect the
other, this
isn't a
privacy vs
information
publishing
standards
issue, we can
have both.<br>
<br>
(And again, I
assert that
simply
'informed
consent' can
always deal
with any
situations
where they
conflict)<br>
<br>
--
Michael --<br>
<br>
PS, my concern
is that this
lengthy
wrangling
prevents real
work from
getting done,
and the
participants
who are
integral to
this
conversation
will fall by
the way side,
and the
lobbyist's
will simply
wear them down
..<br>
<br>
Some of us
have real jobs
too..<span><br>
<br>
<br>
On 17-09-27
02:58 PM, John
Bambenek via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg
wrote:<br>
</span>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>
A simple
policy
proscription
would be, for
instance, to
say under US
law if you get
a domain under
the control of
a US
registrar, we
need you to
consent to
full
disclosure.
Don't like it,
pick a
European
ccTLD. I don't
advocate that,
mind you, but
that's the
kind of policy
balkanization
could produce.<br>
<br>
j<br>
<br>
<br>
On 09/27/2017
04:31 PM, Paul
Keating wrote:<br>
</span>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>
I am failing
to understand
how such a
walled-garden
approach will
solve
anything.<br>
<br>
</span><a
href="http://1.EU"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">1.EU</a>
registrars/registries
would
still have to
deal with
GDPR.<br>
<br>
2.Registrars
are not aided
by the
distinction
since they
would still
end up with EU
customers and
EU registrant
data.<br>
<br>
PRK<br>
<br>
From: <<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann<wbr>.org</a>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce<wbr>s@icann.org</a>>>
on behalf of
jonathan
matkowsky <<a
href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net</a>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jonathan.matkowsky@ris<wbr>kiq.net</a>>><span><br>
Date:
Wednesday,
September 27,
2017 at 11:03
PM<br>
</span> To:
Rubens Kuhl
<<a
href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rubensk@nic.br</a> <mailto:<a
href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rubensk@nic.br</a>>><br>
Cc: RDS PDP WG
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.<wbr>org</a>>><span><br>
Subject: Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
WSGR Final
Memorandum<br>
<br>
Assuming
for argument's
sake that's
true without
taking any<br>
position
as I'm still
catching up
from a week
ago, I'm not
sure<br>
this
should be
dismissed
without
consideration
as a
possibility,<br>
although
obviously not
by any stretch
of the
imagination
ideal --><br>
non-EU
registrars
block EU
registrants,
and registries
contract<br>
with
non-EU
registrars.<br>
<br>
On Tue,
Sep 26, 2017
at 8:25 PM,
Rubens Kuhl
<<a
href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rubensk@nic.br</a><br>
</span>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rubensk@nic.br</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>
On Sep
26, 2017, at
7:17 PM, John
Horton<br>
<<a
href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">john.horton@legitscript.com</a><br>
</span><span>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">john.horton@legitscrip<wbr>t.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Much
of this
problem goes
away if we all
agree that
EU-based<br>
registrars
should
henceforth
only be
allowed to
accept<br>
registrants in
the EU. Aside
from the
effect on EU<br>
registrars'
revenue,
what's the
logical
argument
against that<br>
from a
policy
perspective?<br>
<br>
</span>
After all,
isn't the
purpose of the
GDPR to
protect _EU<br>
residents_?<br>
</blockquote>
<span> <br>
That's
correct, but
the conclusion
is not. Non-EU
registrars<br>
are
also subject
to GDPR if
targeting EU
customers,
which<br>
could
be as simple
as providing
services in EU
languages and<br>
accepting
registration
transactions
from the EU.<br>
So,
for the
problem to go
away non-EU
registrars
would need to<br>
block
EU
registrants,
and registries
would only be
able to<br>
enter
contracts with
non-EU
registrars.<br>
<br>
So EU
users would
either be
happy using
numeric IP
addresses,<br>
or
develop a
naming system
of their own.
Then we would
have<br>
balkanisation,
this time
actually
including the
original
balkans.<br>
<br>
<br>
Rubens<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
-- <br>
"Catch the
Magic of
Linux..."<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------<br>
Michael
Peddemors,
President/CEO
LinuxMagic
Inc.<br>
Visit us at <a
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moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.linuxmagic.com</a>
@linuxmagic<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------<br>
A Wizard IT
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------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------<br>
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<div
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<div
class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728m_-8357489614026739257h5"><br>
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-- <br>
<div
class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728m_-8357489614026739257gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">______________________________<wbr>___<br>
Note to self:
Pillage BEFORE
burning.</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset
class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728m_-8357489614026739257mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
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data-smartmail="gmail_signature">______________________________<wbr>___<br>
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<pre class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625moz-signature" cols="72">--
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<a class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br>
<span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</span><br>
<span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br>
<span><a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">______________________________<wbr>___<br>
Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_-858733534536213013moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
------------------------------<wbr>--------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________<br>
Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
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