<div dir="ltr">You once again completely misrepresent me and frame me as something i am not.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi Allison,</p>
<p>it appears you belong to the school of thinking that any means is
legitimate to catch or prevent crime, whereas I belong to the
school of thinking that limits those means the means not
infringing on the rights of third parties. That is ok, we agree to
disagree and move on. <br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013moz-cite-prefix">Am 29.09.2017 um 16:12 schrieb allison
nixon:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>[Volker's mail]</div>
>>the reason why phishing, spam, and malware never
appeared in the document is because they have nothing to do with
the question of privacy rights. Except that violating such
rights exposes the data subjects to those forms of abuse.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>False. What makes copyright violation(which was spoken
about numerous times in the doc) more relevant than
spam/fraud/phishing/malware? Who made that determination? It
was stated numerous times that the rights of the registrant
have to be weighed against the rights of the people exposed to
these domains. Since spam, fraud, phishing, malware, are all
issues relevant to the general public, they are relevant
issues to weigh. This sounds like an attempt to throw out an
issue because no sane counter-argument exists for it. You are
once again trolling the group with irrelevant and illogical
arguments while attempting to throw out arguments that are
relevant.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Again, I expect a retraction and apology. Not accepting my argument
does not entitle anyone to name-calling or questioning my motives,
especially when the person making the allegations is doing the very
same thing he/she is alleging me of doing to invalidate my
arguments. <br>
<br>
Anyway, your comment has nothing to do with the point I was making.
No one is making one form of abuse more relevant than another. Yet
when weighing the prevention of abuse against the legal rights of
uninvolved third parties, those third parties win, unless there is a
legal justification that these rights may be infringed upon or set
aside. <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[Volker's mail]<br>
</div>
<div>>>I agree that this group does not make policy for
ccTLDs, but we do not operate in a vacuum. ccTLDs - due to the
variety of their approaches - have been an ideal policy
testing ground and I see no reasons not to take what works
from the various ccTLD policies. If something works well for
.eu, why should it not also work well for .africa, for
example? or .com?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Quite a few ccTLDs require additional identifying
information to prove that the person is a resident of that
country or that there is a physical corporate presence within
the country. We could follow that model if you're so
interested in that- quite a few ccTLDs have very low rates of
abuse due to the elaborate checks in place to resolve the
registrant to a known person or entity. Are you willing to
front the costs? You aren't, because you are trolling.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I am aware of these models, we are specialized in serving next to
all ccTLDs after all. In most cases such verification does not occur
at the time of registration though, and when it does, it is usually
not a European registry. And yes, there are even those where it is,
and in those cases, that information, while collected, is for the
exclusive use of the registry and not being published. And finally,
where such publication does occur despite privacy regulations being
in place as well, there always is a legal basis for it, not the whim
of the registry.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[Volker's mail]<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>>>it is interesting that despite studies showing
there is no correlation between domain abuse and use of domain
privacy, the same argument is being raised again and again.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A convenient misinterpretation of the facts. It's not a
reliable indicator, it is one factor out of many, and it is a
significant factor. No single indicator is a reliable
indicator. you are once again trolling.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
It seems you are really running out of good arguments if this
baseless and unwarranted accusation is all you have to bring to the
table to counter my argument.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Volker<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:05 AM, John
Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>I think you mistake his point. Domain whois data IS
useful in fighting abuse according to everyone who
actually fights abuse. The report referenced making the
statement it did shows there remains a misunderstanding
on that point. <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013h5">
<div><br>
On Sep 29, 2017, at 3:20 AM, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p>Hi Theo,</p>
<p>it is interesting that despite studies showing
there is no correlation between domain abuse and
use of domain privacy, the same argument is
being raised again and again. from my own
experience of looking at the abuse complaints we
receive, I note that only a small fraction of
abusive registrations use our privacy functions.
In most cases, harvested real data is used
instead. <br>
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> <br>
<a class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/sadag-final-09aug17-en.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/en/syste<wbr>m/files/files/sadag-final-<wbr>09aug17-en.pdf</a><br>
<br>
This report mentions: The usage of Privacy or
Proxy Services by itself is not a reliable
indicator of abuse.<br>
<br>
Thanks again, <br>
<br>
Theo <br>
<br>
Again it is clear now, thanks all. <br>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625moz-cite-prefix">On
28-9-2017 20:50, Dotzero wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>To add to what Allison has indicated,
websites do analysis of these sorts of
datapoints for evaluating transactions
for fraud and potential abuse. For
example, signups form domains that have
private registrations have a very high
propensity to be related to abuse.
Signups and visits to our websites from
IP addresses belonging to hosting
providers have an even higher
correlation with abuse (how many
endusers browse the web from severs in
datacenters?).<br>
<br>
</div>
This is not police action, it is
organizations protecting themselves, their
other users and the internet at large from
abusive activity.<br>
<br>
</div>
Michael Hammer<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 28,
2017 at 2:33 PM, allison nixon <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Reputation is based on a
lot of different points not just
contents of WHOIS data. If the .EU TLD
can keep its customer base clean,
there isn't much need for WHOIS data
for the most part, however this group
doesn't make policy for ccTLDs. For
other TLDs that this group does
recommend policy for, for example,
.XYZ, which boasts a
greater-than-90-percent rate of
maliciousness, any legitimate domain
in that space will need some other
points of reputation to make up for
that. WHOIS is part of that, including
the age, and actual contact details.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That said, WHOIS data is an
important part of tracing ownership
and it can have consequences for the
registrant.<br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Recently we had to deal with
a ccTLD of .ir that was being
used to control large botnets.
The current and historical WHOIS
data showed signs that a
legitimate registrant's account
was stolen to do this. Thus,
when the complaint was sent to
the registrar, the registrant
was not accused of running
botnets, but instead the
registrar was alerted to an
abuse of the service and they
could take action accordingly.
If the ownership of this domain
could not be traced, and if
there were not skilled
investigators on the other end,
would the registrant have been
in danger of going to an Iranian
prison? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It turns out, the ccTLD of
.ir was specifically chosen
because the criminals thought
the poor international relations
would hamper law enforcement
action. However WHOIS and the
transparency it provides allowed
people to discover the truth and
prevent serious problems. By
locking up WHOIS behind court
orders, these cross-border
issues will become worse.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, to be clear since a lot
of people can't seem to tell the
difference, everything we did
was well within the bounds of
civil action, we weren't
"pretending to be the police" or
any of the other things people
in this group accuse security
companies of doing when they
deal with malware. Any member of
the public can file an abuse
complaint.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu,
Sep 28, 2017 at 2:10 PM, theo
geurts <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Allison, <br>
</p>
<p>Does this problem also
exsist with TLDs like .EU,
.NL, .DE, .FR just to name
a few ccTLDs?</p>
<p>Curious, <br>
</p>
<p>Theo <br>
</p>
<div>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728h5">
<br>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728m_-8357489614026739257moz-cite-prefix">On
28-9-2017 19:42,
allison nixon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>>> So, I
can see a day that
if privacy
advocates and/or
EU legislation
fears prevent such
a Best Practice as
proper WHOIS
records, the
service providers
will simply choose
practices, such as
'you cannot access
our service unless
you have public
whois information
available'.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's already
happening. Try
sending an e-mail
using a domain
behind WHOIS
privacy. Some
anti-spam systems
drop it straight
in the garbage
because WHOIS
privacy is already
a negative
reputation point.
If WHOIS gets shut
down, I fully
expect groups like
Spamhaus, M3AAWG,
APWG, etc, to
publish a set of
guidelines that
registrants need
to abide by in
order to send
mail, or be
accessible by
people behind
corporate
firewalls that
block based on
reputation. ICANN
must understand
that they are at
risk of losing
relevancy if they
want to take this
hardline approach,
because if a law
breaks the
continued
functioning of a
network, the
network will route
around it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Look at the
"cookies" EU law.
Did that actually
stop any websites
from using
cookies? No, it
just created a
popup that no one
reads but everyone
clicks through to
visit the website.
Because breaking
cookies breaks
websites. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>>>Some of
us have real jobs
too..</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>which is the
main reason why i
can't spend 8
hours every day
watching this
group, unlike some
people here who
have been active
in this group for
years now. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My response to
Chuck's email
earlier, I bolded
the responses and
tagged the start
and end of my
replies for
clarity:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">"independent
answers to the
same questions
we asked the
European data
protection
experts earlier
in the year"<br>
[Chuck Gomes]
That was a
request from WG
members who felt
that the DP
experts might be
biased. The
questions were
developed by the
WG. There were
two primary
reasons for
using the same
questions: 1)
both groups
would be
responding to
the same
questions and
therefore make
it easy to
compare; 2) the
questions were
approved by the
WG.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b><allison>I
don't think
anyone accused
the DP experts
of being
biased. The
objection was
that the
questions
themselves
were biased.
The words
"phishing" and
"spam" and
"malware"
never once
appeared in
this entire
document,
despite being
major core
issues. The
only abuse
issues that
were focused
on were in
relation to
intellectual
property
violation and
harassment of
women, both of
which are not
the major
issues most of
us deal with
on a daily
basis(not to
belittle them
but they are
generally not
the reason why
we are here
today). The
word "fraud"
was mentioned
once in a
question and
then never
directly
addressed in
the response.</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>Additionally,
my entire
industry was
grossly
misrepresented
in question
#6. None of us
operate with
police powers,
and none of us
pretend to
have any. When
we submit a
complaint to a
registrar
about one of
their
customers
breaking the
law, the
illegality of
the act
provides
necessary
justification
for the
registrar to
drop the
customer
without a
refund. This
is not
prosecution of
a crime, and
claiming it is
such is a lie.
Evidence of
breaking the
law is
necessary
because
registrars
aren't just
going to take
down any
customer we
say we don't
like. I wholly
object to the
entire line
they continued
on about
cybersecurity
companies and
"quasi-police
powers",
because the
question never
differentiated
between civil
and criminal
actions and it
was therefore
misleading. </b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>None of
the questions
addressed the
issues that
registrants
have where
their WHOIS
and other
reputation
points affect
the de-facto
functionality
of a domain,
for example a
domain's
functionality
is hampered
when it is on
blocklists. Or
if someone
sends a
complaint
against the
domain and has
no tools to
differentiate
the registrant
from the
criminal (as
registrar
accounts are
often hacked),
then the
incorrect
accusation can
also affect
the
operability of
the domain as
it is
mistakenly
taken down in
confusion.
None of the
questions ask
about
conflicts
between GDPR
and basic
network-level-functionality
of domains.</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>Also, none
of the
questions ask
if a free
no-obligation
alternative
(whois privacy
protect)
enhances the
validity of
consent given
for making
WHOIS records
public.
</allison></b></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">So
we weren't
allowed to ask
questions of
these legal
experts? You
know, they can't
magically divine
all legitimate
use cases. The
session with the
EU data
protection
experts earlier
this year is the
exact same one
we objected to
because anti
abuse use cases
got exactly zero
representation.
So why choose
that exact set
of questions
again especially
since an entire
group of people
have joined the
group
afterwards(actually,
due to this
specific problem
of lack of
representation)?
And then label
it "final",
really.<br>
[Chuck Gomes] We
didn’t ask them
to consider use
cases except as
they were
relevant to the
questions we
asked; that is
our job and we
prepared a list
of those a long
time ago. We
asked them to
focus on their
understanding of
European Data
Protection law.
Our WG has a
good mix of
people that use
RDS data for
different uses.</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div><b><allison>And
his answers
are borderline
useless. The
scenarios
presented were
extremely
poor, and not
reflecting
today's
Internet and
the problems
network
operators
face. For
example, when
he writes
"This means
that the term
'vital
interest' is
to be
interpreted as
referring to
an
individual’s
life, health,
safety, or
other such
interest that
is essential
to their
physical
wellbeing", he
goes on to
talk about IP
violations,
the rights of
a child, the
economic
interests of a
search engine,
finally
concluding "we
believe that
the </b><b>conditions
for using the
'legitimate
interests'
legal basis
would not be
satisfied".</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>That's a
complete
misrepresentation
of the
interests at
stake here.
The issue at
hand is not
the economic
interests of
one company
nor about mere
copyright
infringement.
The WHOIS data
resource is
used to combat
all types of
fraud,
international
espionage,
rigging of
elections, and
so many
hostile
attacks. Some
of these
attacks,
especially
DDOS,
frequently
threaten basic
functionality
of the
Internet. It
has an
international
strategic
value and
promotes
lawful
behavior far
more than it
hurts. It's
used to create
cleaner, safer
networks.
There are
countless
documented
instances
where WHOIS
played a key
role and where
the
replacement
system would
have allowed
the malicious
behavior to
continue. All
of these facts
have been
conveniently
left out of
the question,
and since the
lawyer can't
be expected to
know all this,
he has no
choice but to
conclude that
the legitimate
interests
provided are
too weak.
</allison></b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Havent
gone through it
yet, will do so
as i get time.
Expecting to see
the same result
one can expect
when one doesn't
represent entire
groups of
constituencies.<br>
[Chuck Gomes]
What do you mean
by representing
‘entire groups
of
constituencies’?
Do you represent
an entire
constituency?
Are you aware of
any
constituencies
who are not
represented in
the WG? If so,
please encourage
them to
participate.</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b><allison>Dozens
of people joined
this mailing
list after
numerous events
demonstrated
that this
working group
did not consider
the overall well
being of the
Internet, and
had a completely
skewed idea of
the problems the
Internet faces
today. People
were outraged
that this group
was going in the
direction it was
going, ignoring
how the Internet
actually works.
The fact that
these questions
were chosen- and
the fact that
the new
membership(especially
those that
joined after the
questions were
initially asked)
were not given
any opportunity
to provide input
on questions to
the lawyer- does
not reflect well
on the
leadership of
this working
group. Even when
the original
questions were
created, as far
as I can tell,
only people
physically
present at that
meeting had any
chance to
provide input.
For those of us
with jobs in
operations,
being
ever-present for
this working
group is
impossible, and
none of us have
the stamina that
some of the
people here
have, because we
are busy
working. </b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>At its most
charitable
interpretation,
the choice of
these specific
questions could
be an innocent
oversight or
miscommunication.
At its least
charitable, it
looks like
ICANN's money
was wasted on a
procedural trick
to keep facts
out of the
conversation and
continue to push
a narrow agenda.</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>People from
numerous
unrelated
Internet
companies and
law firms
flooded this
group earlier
this year once
sunshine was
shed on this
group's
activities.
Maybe that's
important.
Please take it
seriously.
</allison></b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Wed, Sep 27, 2017
at 6:22 PM,
Michael Peddemors
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michael@linuxmagic.com" target="_blank">michael@linuxmagic.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">IMHO,
If ICANN cannot
figure out how
to make a proper
functioning
WHOIS policy, we
have to remember
that the
community at
large will, and
then simply,
ICANN will loose
relevance on
this issue.<br>
<br>
No one passed a
law that a mail
server had to
have a
functioning PTR
record, (well
yes, some
international
spam
legislations
clearly spelled
out the need for
clearly
specifying the
operator) but if
you want to send
email today,
functionally you
need a PTR
record.<br>
<br>
Only problem is,
that often it is
the biggest
players that set
those standards,
and it is the
role of
organizations
like ICANN to
level the field,
and make sure
that directions
aren't dictated
by the biggest
players on the
block, and never
more so in a
world of
consolidation
and cloud
providers.<br>
<br>
I think it was
Yahoo that was
one of the first
big players to
simply not
accept
connections from
IP(s) with no
PTR, and I know
we were one of
the early
adopters to that
strategy..<br>
<br>
So, I can see a
day that if
privacy
advocates and/or
EU legislation
fears prevent
such a Best
Practice as
proper WHOIS
records, the
service
providers will
simply choose
practices, such
as 'you cannot
access our
service unless
you have public
whois
information
available'.<br>
<br>
It would be far
better if ICANN
can understand
the importance
of that need,
and make a
statement that
everyone can get
behind and point
to, that levels
that field, in
'spite' of
possible
contradictory
privacy
information.<br>
<br>
Let's just
simple keep
these two
conversations
separate, one
should NOT
affect the
other, this
isn't a privacy
vs information
publishing
standards issue,
we can have
both.<br>
<br>
(And again, I
assert that
simply 'informed
consent' can
always deal with
any situations
where they
conflict)<br>
<br>
--
Michael --<br>
<br>
PS, my concern
is that this
lengthy
wrangling
prevents real
work from
getting done,
and the
participants who
are integral to
this
conversation
will fall by the
way side, and
the lobbyist's
will simply wear
them down ..<br>
<br>
Some of us have
real jobs too..<span><br>
<br>
<br>
On 17-09-27
02:58 PM, John
Bambenek via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg
wrote:<br>
</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>
A simple
policy
proscription
would be, for
instance, to
say under US
law if you get
a domain under
the control of
a US
registrar, we
need you to
consent to
full
disclosure.
Don't like it,
pick a
European
ccTLD. I don't
advocate that,
mind you, but
that's the
kind of policy
balkanization
could produce.<br>
<br>
j<br>
<br>
<br>
On 09/27/2017
04:31 PM, Paul
Keating wrote:<br>
</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>
I am failing
to understand
how such a
walled-garden
approach will
solve
anything.<br>
<br>
</span><a href="http://1.EU" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">1.EU</a>
registrars/registries
would
still have to
deal with
GDPR.<br>
<br>
2.Registrars
are not aided
by the
distinction
since they
would still
end up with EU
customers and
EU registrant
data.<br>
<br>
PRK<br>
<br>
From: <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann<wbr>.org</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce<wbr>s@icann.org</a>>>
on behalf of
jonathan
matkowsky <<a href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net" target="_blank">jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net" target="_blank">jonathan.matkowsky@ris<wbr>kiq.net</a>>><span><br>
Date:
Wednesday,
September 27,
2017 at 11:03
PM<br>
</span> To:
Rubens Kuhl
<<a href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" target="_blank">rubensk@nic.br</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" target="_blank">rubensk@nic.br</a>>><br>
Cc: RDS PDP WG
<<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.<wbr>org</a>>><span><br>
Subject: Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
WSGR Final
Memorandum<br>
<br>
Assuming
for argument's
sake that's
true without
taking any<br>
position
as I'm still
catching up
from a week
ago, I'm not
sure<br>
this
should be
dismissed
without
consideration
as a
possibility,<br>
although
obviously not
by any stretch
of the
imagination
ideal --><br>
non-EU
registrars
block EU
registrants,
and registries
contract<br>
with
non-EU
registrars.<br>
<br>
On Tue,
Sep 26, 2017
at 8:25 PM,
Rubens Kuhl
<<a href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" target="_blank">rubensk@nic.br</a><br>
</span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" target="_blank">rubensk@nic.br</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>
On Sep
26, 2017, at
7:17 PM, John
Horton<br>
<<a href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" target="_blank">john.horton@legitscript.com</a><br>
</span><span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" target="_blank">john.horton@legitscrip<wbr>t.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Much
of this
problem goes
away if we all
agree that
EU-based<br>
registrars
should
henceforth
only be
allowed to
accept<br>
registrants in
the EU. Aside
from the
effect on EU<br>
registrars'
revenue,
what's the
logical
argument
against that<br>
from a
policy
perspective?<br>
<br>
</span>
After all,
isn't the
purpose of the
GDPR to
protect _EU<br>
residents_?<br>
</blockquote>
<span> <br>
That's
correct, but
the conclusion
is not. Non-EU
registrars<br>
are
also subject
to GDPR if
targeting EU
customers,
which<br>
could
be as simple
as providing
services in EU
languages and<br>
accepting
registration
transactions
from the EU.<br>
So,
for the
problem to go
away non-EU
registrars
would need to<br>
block
EU
registrants,
and registries
would only be
able to<br>
enter
contracts with
non-EU
registrars.<br>
<br>
So EU
users would
either be
happy using
numeric IP
addresses,<br>
or
develop a
naming system
of their own.
Then we would
have<br>
balkanisation,
this time
actually
including the
original
balkans.<br>
<br>
<br>
Rubens<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------<br>
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------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------<br>
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<div class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728m_-8357489614026739257HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728m_-8357489614026739257h5"><br>
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<div><br>
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-- <br>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728m_-8357489614026739257gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">______________________________<wbr>___<br>
Note to self:
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<br>
<fieldset class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728m_-8357489614026739257mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
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</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625m_-3822653643895831728gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">______________________________<wbr>___<br>
Note to self: Pillage BEFORE
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<fieldset class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_-858733534536213013m_6936024523253010625moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
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Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
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------------------------------<wbr>--------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
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<div class="m_-858733534536213013gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">______________________________<wbr>___<br>
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</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_-858733534536213013moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
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Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-858733534536213013moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________<br>Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
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