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<p>Neil, <br>
</p>
<p>Yes, for some Registrars it may be a "cash-cow", but not for all,
if you want to compete in certain countries, it has to be free or
you are out.</p>
<p>Next year I suspect there will be a lot more offering it for free
I guess.<br>
</p>
<p>Theo <br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1-10-2017 21:58, Neil Schwartzman
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:5E3B9D36-CF3E-4424-98BB-A462C58AE8E9@cauce.org">
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<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px;
border-left-style: solid; border-left-color:
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple"
class="" lang="EN-GB">
<div class="m_6091473539265695178WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">So if
most domain names were using whois
privacy / proxy to mask the registrant
details then, logically, they’d all have
to be treated the same with respect to
that data point?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
That is something that happens now in terms of negative
reputation assignation.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Proxy registrations, an obvious cash-cow for
registrars, are considered a negative by receiving
systems. The ironic bit is when registrants use WHOIS
Proxy services then post their contact information on
the website, which happens enough to brighten my day
regularly.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">ISTRC some incredulity on one forum or
another when I was talking about certain .TLDs that are
regularly treated with negative reputation scoring;
some, blocked in their entirety.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">There is always a balance between blocking
entirely and having false positives, and not blocking,
and having false negatives. Should the rate of abuse
attributable to a given data point reach certain levels,
the concern about false negatives can vanish entirely.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">This will happen as researchers’ abilities
to assess becomes constrained further. Shrug. Recieving
systems have no obligation to accept the traffic.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Neil Schwartzman</div>
<div class="">Executive Director</div>
<div class="">Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial
Email</div>
<div class=""><a href="http://cauce.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://cauce.org</a></div>
<div class="">Tel : (303) 800-6345</div>
</div>
<div class="">Twitter : @cauce</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
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</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 1, 2017, at 21:34, allison nixon <<a
href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Yes, you are correct. And as we
consider this, we need to consider the consequences that
will happen after that.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">These reputation systems try to block
malicious activity and minimize false positives. By
reducing the number of datapoints available to these
systems, they will lose precision, resulting in two main
outcomes:</div>
<div class="">
<ul class="">
<li class="">Some systems will over-block, denying
legitimate registrants the full use of their
domains. Like the many examples I noted either,
e-mail will be the most impacted, but so will the
ability for users behind corporate firewalls to
reach websites. This will impact new registrants the
worst.<br class="">
</li>
<li class="">Other systems will under-block. They will
miss malicious domains that they otherwise would
have caught. This will result in increased
victimization due to spam, ransomware, banking
trojans, phishing, and so forth. </li>
</ul>
<div class="">All of these issues already have huge
real-world consequences, from financial loss(not just
for large companies, but for the savings accounts of
vulnerable people), to espionage, to election rigging,
and these consequences will get worse. As a direct
result of the loss of WHOIS for the gTLD system.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">Another follow-on consequence is when
reputation systems are forced to paint broader strokes,
they will more often threaten entire registrars. Imagine
if a large network operator warns your company that you
have too many abusive customers and threatens to block
all your customers entirely. I have heard of these
company-wide-blocking events happening, and in every
instance I have heard of, it either makes the volume of
abuse drop like a rock, or the registrar begs for
forgiveness and cleans up the problem themselves,
because this can be a death penalty. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Yes, many ccTLDs do not publish WHOIS data.
And here are a couple of ways they are treated by
reputation systems:</div>
<div class="">
<ul class="">
<li class="">Some ccTLDs experience very low rates of
abuse, like .se, and they don't have a problem</li>
<li class="">Other ccTLDs, due to their higher rates
of abuse, are entirely rejected on many networks.
.ru and .cn are the best examples of this, despite
having a large number of legitimate domains, many
networks block the entire TLD because it's just not
worth it.</li>
</ul>
<div class="">Also, please consider the state of the new
TLD's that ICANN released over the past few years, and
how much their commercial viability has been impacted
by abuse. Is it feasible for any business owner to
build their brand on a .xyz or .science domain? No, it
isn't! Not if they ever want to send e-mail. This is a
damning indictment of the system, and it is a direct
result of the "not my problem" attitude. Even if the
working group decides they don't care about the other
consequences, I think the basic commercial viability
of the gTLD system should be a potential
consideration.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
This working group needs to understand these issues and
the consequences of our actions. If you don't think that
these consequences will happen, or that you don't think
abuse affects the commercial viability of domains, then
let's have a conversation about that, and we can bring
more evidence to the table. If you don't think these
consequences are something we should consider at all,
please say so, because that's a conversation that should
be resolved here too. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 12:14 PM,
Michele Neylon - Blacknight <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a
href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">michele@blacknight.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple"
class="" lang="EN-GB">
<div class="m_6091473539265695178WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Allison</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">So if most
domain names were using whois privacy / proxy
to mask the registrant details then,
logically, they’d all have to be treated the
same with respect to that data point?
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Also, many
ccTLDs do not publish verbose whois data,
however that is not the same as whois privacy,
as in most cases the registry will have the
data but simply won’t publish it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Michele</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span></p>
<div class=""><span class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US">--</span></p>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US">Mr
Michele Neylon</span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US">Blacknight
Solutions</span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US">Hosting,
Colocation & Domains</span></p>
</div>
</span>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://www.blacknight.com/"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.blacknight.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://blacknight.blog/"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://blacknight.blog</a>
/</span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"><a
href="http://ceo.hosting/"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://ceo.hosting/</a></span></p>
</div>
<span class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US">Intl. <a
href="tel:+353%2059%20918%203072"
value="+353599183072" target="_blank"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+353
(0) 59 9183072</a></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US">Direct
Dial: <a
href="tel:+353%2059%20918%203090"
value="+353599183090" target="_blank"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+353
(0)59 9183090</a></span></p>
</div>
</span>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US">------------------------------<wbr
class="">-</span></p>
</div>
<span class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US">Blacknight
Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit
12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#191919;background:white"
class="">
</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"
class="">R93 X265</span></p>
</div>
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;" class="">,Ireland Company No.:
370845</span><span class=""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm" class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@<wbr
class="">icann.org</a>> on behalf of
allison nixon <<a
href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Date: </b>Friday 29 September
2017 at 16:19<br class="">
<b class="">To: </b>Volker Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>><span
class=""><br class="">
<b class="">Cc: </b>RDS PDP WG <<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject: </b>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] WSGR Final Memorandum</span></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">No, so here is how
reputation works. Privacy is one factor out of
many. When assessing a domain, you have
datapoints like the date registered, the
registrar, the TLD, yes/no on whois privacy,
any exposed contents of whois, the IP it
points to, and a number of other factors. </p>
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Say there is a
years-old domain, that has pointed to
the same IP for years, but has WHOIS
privacy turned on, and no bad incidents
attached to it. That domain has an
otherwise good reputation, despite the
WHOIS privacy it is fine and it won't be
blocked.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Now imagine another
domain, which is newly registered, less
than a month old and has WHOIS privacy
turned on, has pointed to the same IP
for less than a month, and has no bad
incidents attached to it. It's status is
ambiguous, and the fact that WHOIS
privacy is turned on may be the deciding
factor flipping the switch to filter any
emails sent using that domain. If the
WHOIS privacy was turned off and the
details pointed to a known company, that
may flip the switch the other way and
the domain may not be blocked.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">It's an
oversimplification but that's how it
works.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Sep 29, 2017
at 11:13 AM, Volker Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<p class="">Hi Allison, </p>
<p class="">I do not appreciate the
comment you made and do not agree
that there is a difference, but I
think we should take part of our
discussion off the list as it does
not benefit the rest of the group.
You obviously seem to be unwilling
to conform to the standards we all
agreed to and I will take that into
account going forward.</p>
<p class="">The claim that use of
privacy indicates a higher
propensity for abuse as alleged by
Michael was not supported by the
study. While privacy may be an
indicator if all other stars align,
by itself it is not.Once privacy
becomes the norm, it will mean
nothing.
</p>
<p class="">Best,</p>
<p class="">Volker</p>
<p class=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 29.09.2017
um 17:02 schrieb allison nixon:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">>>Again,
I resent your allegation and
expect you to take it back.
Name-calling and loosely flung
accusations of trolling do not
conform to the standard of
behavior we all agreed to.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">See my
explanation in my other email.
I did not call you A troll,
and i was not calling you
names. i described your
behavior as trolling and i
explained why in the other
thread. </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">>>I
must admit that I have not
read that other study yet, so
I cannot comment on their
conclusion. This study here
however reached another
conclusion:</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">"The
analysis of the use of WHOIS
Privacy and Proxy</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">services
leads us to conclude that the
usage of a WHOIS</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Privacy and
Proxy services by itself is
not a reliable indicator</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">of
malicious activity. Apart from
the peaks, the usage of</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Privacy and
Proxy services for abusive
domains is not that</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">high (see
Figure 28, Figure 29)."</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">You are
once again misinterpreting the
simple english in that
sentence. It is saying the use
of WHOIS privacy *BY ITSELF*
is not a reliable indicator of
malicious activity. Meaning,
in a vaccuum, with no other
information about the domain,
it doesn't guarantee the
domain is malicious. If you
actually understood the
problem space, or read any of
the other 32 pages of the
study, you would discover that
domain reputation relies on a
large number of indicators and
WHOIS privacy is only one
indicator, and that the
sentence is neither
vindication nor damnation of
the service.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Sep
29, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Volker
Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<p class="">Again, I resent
your allegation and expect
you to take it back.
Name-calling and loosely
flung accusations of
trolling do not conform to
the standard of behavior
we all agreed to.</p>
<p class="">I must admit
that I have not read that
other study yet, so I
cannot comment on their
conclusion. This study
here however reached
another conclusion:</p>
<p class="">"The analysis of
the use of WHOIS Privacy
and Proxy<br class="">
services leads us to
conclude that the usage of
a WHOIS<br class="">
Privacy and Proxy services
by itself is not a
reliable indicator<br
class="">
of malicious activity.
Apart from the peaks, the
usage of<br class="">
Privacy and Proxy services
for abusive domains is not
that<br class="">
high (see Figure 28,
Figure 29)."</p>
<p class="">Volker</p>
<p class=""> </p>
<p class=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Am
29.09.2017 um 16:15
schrieb allison nixon:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Then
you should have read
the exact next
sentence following
the one that you
took to vaguely
support your
argument:</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">"There
are many legitimate
reasons why someone
may want</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">to
conceal possession
of a domain name.
The usage of a</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">WHOIS
Privacy and Proxy
services by itself
is, therefore not a</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">reliable
single indicator of
malicious activity.<b
class=""> A
previous study</b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b
class="">by
National Physical
Laboratories [44],
however did find
that</b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b
class="">a
significant
portion of abusive
domains use
Privacy and Proxy</b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b
class="">services.</b>"</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">You
are trolling once
again.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at
10:11 AM, Volker
Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm
0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<p class="">Not
really, since
Mike was
alleging that
there is a
correlation
between the use
of whois privacy
and abuse,
whereas the
study says the
opposite.
</p>
<p class="">Whois
data may have
its use for
fighting abuse,
but private
registrations
are not an
indicator of
abuse, according
to the study. I
have not seen a
study that
showed there is
a correlation.</p>
<p class=""><span
style="color:#888888" class="">Volker</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<p class=""> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">Am
29.09.2017 um
15:05 schrieb
John Bambenek:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">I
think you
mistake his
point. Domain
whois data IS
useful in
fighting abuse
according to
everyone who
actually
fights abuse.
The report
referenced
making the
statement it
did shows
there remains
a
misunderstanding
on that
point. <br
class="">
<br class="">
Sent from my
iPad</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br class="">
On Sep 29,
2017, at 3:20
AM, Volker
Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<p class="">Hi
Theo,</p>
<p class="">it
is interesting
that despite
studies
showing there
is no
correlation
between domain
abuse and use
of domain
privacy, the
same argument
is being
raised again
and again.
from my own
experience of
looking at the
abuse
complaints we
receive, I
note that only
a small
fraction of
abusive
registrations
use our
privacy
functions. In
most cases,
harvested real
data is used
instead.
</p>
<p class="">Best,</p>
<p class="">Volker</p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
<a
href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/sadag-final-09aug17-en.pdf"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/en/<wbr
class="">system/files/files/sadag-<wbr
class="">final-09aug17-en.pdf</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
This report
mentions: The
usage of
Privacy or
Proxy Services
by itself is
not a reliable
indicator of
abuse.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Thanks again,
<br class="">
<br class="">
Theo <br
class="">
<br class="">
Again it is
clear now,
thanks all. </p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
28-9-2017
20:50, Dotzero
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">To add to what Allison has indicated,
websites do
analysis of
these sorts of
datapoints for
evaluating
transactions
for fraud and
potential
abuse. For
example,
signups form
domains that
have private
registrations
have a very
high
propensity to
be related to
abuse. Signups
and visits to
our websites
from IP
addresses
belonging to
hosting
providers have
an even higher
correlation
with abuse
(how many
endusers
browse the web
from severs in
datacenters?).</p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">This is not police action, it is
organizations
protecting
themselves,
their other
users and the
internet at
large from
abusive
activity.</p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Michael
Hammer</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Thu, Sep 28,
2017 at 2:33
PM, allison
nixon <<a
href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">Reputation
is based on a
lot of
different
points not
just contents
of WHOIS data.
If the .EU TLD
can keep its
customer base
clean, there
isn't much
need for WHOIS
data for the
most part,
however this
group doesn't
make policy
for ccTLDs.
For other TLDs
that this
group does
recommend
policy for,
for example,
.XYZ, which
boasts a
greater-than-90-percent
rate of
maliciousness,
any legitimate
domain in that
space will
need some
other points
of reputation
to make up for
that. WHOIS is
part of that,
including the
age, and
actual contact
details. </p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">That
said, WHOIS
data is an
important part
of tracing
ownership and
it can have
consequences
for the
registrant.</p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">Recently
we had to deal
with a ccTLD
of .ir that
was being used
to control
large botnets.
The current
and historical
WHOIS data
showed signs
that a
legitimate
registrant's
account was
stolen to do
this. Thus,
when the
complaint was
sent to the
registrar, the
registrant was
not accused of
running
botnets, but
instead the
registrar was
alerted to an
abuse of the
service and
they could
take action
accordingly.
If the
ownership of
this domain
could not be
traced, and if
there were not
skilled
investigators
on the other
end, would the
registrant
have been in
danger of
going to an
Iranian
prison? </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">It
turns out, the
ccTLD of .ir
was
specifically
chosen because
the criminals
thought the
poor
international
relations
would hamper
law
enforcement
action.
However WHOIS
and the
transparency
it provides
allowed people
to discover
the truth and
prevent
serious
problems. By
locking up
WHOIS behind
court orders,
these
cross-border
issues will
become worse.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">Also,
to be clear
since a lot of
people can't
seem to tell
the
difference,
everything we
did was well
within the
bounds of
civil action,
we weren't
"pretending to
be the police"
or any of the
other things
people in this
group accuse
security
companies of
doing when
they deal with
malware. Any
member of the
public can
file an abuse
complaint.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Thu, Sep 28,
2017 at 2:10
PM, theo
geurts <<a
href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<p class="">Allison,
</p>
<p class="">Does
this problem
also exsist
with TLDs like
.EU, .NL, .DE,
.FR just to
name a few
ccTLDs?</p>
<p class="">Curious,
</p>
<p class="">Theo
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
28-9-2017
19:42, allison
nixon wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">>>
So, I can see
a day that if
privacy
advocates
and/or EU
legislation
fears prevent
such a Best
Practice as
proper WHOIS
records, the
service
providers will
simply choose
practices,
such as 'you
cannot access
our service
unless you
have public
whois
information
available'.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">It's
already
happening. Try
sending an
e-mail using a
domain behind
WHOIS privacy.
Some anti-spam
systems drop
it straight in
the garbage
because WHOIS
privacy is
already a
negative
reputation
point. If
WHOIS gets
shut down, I
fully expect
groups like
Spamhaus,
M3AAWG, APWG,
etc, to
publish a set
of guidelines
that
registrants
need to abide
by in order to
send mail, or
be accessible
by people
behind
corporate
firewalls that
block based on
reputation.
ICANN must
understand
that they are
at risk of
losing
relevancy if
they want to
take this
hardline
approach,
because if a
law breaks the
continued
functioning of
a network, the
network will
route around
it.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">Look
at the
"cookies" EU
law. Did that
actually stop
any websites
from using
cookies? No,
it just
created a
popup that no
one reads but
everyone
clicks through
to visit the
website.
Because
breaking
cookies breaks
websites. </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">>>Some
of us have
real jobs
too..</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">which
is the main
reason why i
can't spend 8
hours every
day watching
this group,
unlike some
people here
who have been
active in this
group for
years now. </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">My
response to
Chuck's email
earlier, I
bolded the
responses and
tagged the
start and end
of my replies
for clarity:</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">"independent
answers to the
same questions
we asked the
European data
protection
experts
earlier in the
year"<br
class="">
[Chuck Gomes]
That was a
request from
WG members who
felt that the
DP experts
might be
biased. The
questions were
developed by
the WG. There
were two
primary
reasons for
using the same
questions: 1)
both groups
would be
responding to
the same
questions and
therefore make
it easy to
compare; 2)
the questions
were approved
by the WG.</p>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b
class=""><allison>I
don't think
anyone accused
the DP experts
of being
biased. The
objection was
that the
questions
themselves
were biased.
The words
"phishing" and
"spam" and
"malware"
never once
appeared in
this entire
document,
despite being
major core
issues. The
only abuse
issues that
were focused
on were in
relation to
intellectual
property
violation and
harassment of
women, both of
which are not
the major
issues most of
us deal with
on a daily
basis(not to
belittle them
but they are
generally not
the reason why
we are here
today). The
word "fraud"
was mentioned
once in a
question and
then never
directly
addressed in
the response.</b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b
class="">Additionally,
my entire
industry was
grossly
misrepresented
in question
#6. None of us
operate with
police powers,
and none of us
pretend to
have any. When
we submit a
complaint to a
registrar
about one of
their
customers
breaking the
law, the
illegality of
the act
provides
necessary
justification
for the
registrar to
drop the
customer
without a
refund. This
is not
prosecution of
a crime, and
claiming it is
such is a lie.
Evidence of
breaking the
law is
necessary
because
registrars
aren't just
going to take
down any
customer we
say we don't
like. I wholly
object to the
entire line
they continued
on about
cybersecurity
companies and
"quasi-police
powers",
because the
question never
differentiated
between civil
and criminal
actions and it
was therefore
misleading. </b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b
class="">None
of the
questions
addressed the
issues that
registrants
have where
their WHOIS
and other
reputation
points affect
the de-facto
functionality
of a domain,
for example a
domain's
functionality
is hampered
when it is on
blocklists. Or
if someone
sends a
complaint
against the
domain and has
no tools to
differentiate
the registrant
from the
criminal (as
registrar
accounts are
often hacked),
then the
incorrect
accusation can
also affect
the
operability of
the domain as
it is
mistakenly
taken down in
confusion.
None of the
questions ask
about
conflicts
between GDPR
and basic
network-level-functionality
of domains.</b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b
class="">Also,
none of the
questions ask
if a free
no-obligation
alternative
(whois privacy
protect)
enhances the
validity of
consent given
for making
WHOIS records
public.
</allison></b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">So
we weren't
allowed to ask
questions of
these legal
experts? You
know, they
can't
magically
divine all
legitimate use
cases. The
session with
the EU data
protection
experts
earlier this
year is the
exact same one
we objected to
because anti
abuse use
cases got
exactly zero
representation.
So why choose
that exact set
of questions
again
especially
since an
entire group
of people have
joined the
group
afterwards(actually,
due to this
specific
problem of
lack of
representation)?
And then label
it "final",
really.<br
class="">
[Chuck Gomes]
We didn’t ask
them to
consider use
cases except
as they were
relevant to
the questions
we asked; that
is our job and
we prepared a
list of those
a long time
ago. We asked
them to focus
on their
understanding
of European
Data
Protection
law. Our WG
has a good mix
of people that
use RDS data
for different
uses.</p>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b
class=""><allison>And
his answers
are borderline
useless. The
scenarios
presented were
extremely
poor, and not
reflecting
today's
Internet and
the problems
network
operators
face. For
example, when
he writes
"This means
that the term
'vital
interest' is
to be
interpreted as
referring to
an
individual’s
life, health,
safety, or
other such
interest that
is essential
to their
physical
wellbeing", he
goes on to
talk about IP
violations,
the rights of
a child, the
economic
interests of a
search engine,
finally
concluding "we
believe that
the conditions
for using the
'legitimate
interests'
legal basis
would not be
satisfied".</b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b
class="">That's
a complete
misrepresentation
of the
interests at
stake here.
The issue at
hand is not
the economic
interests of
one company
nor about mere
copyright
infringement.
The WHOIS data
resource is
used to combat
all types of
fraud,
international
espionage,
rigging of
elections, and
so many
hostile
attacks. Some
of these
attacks,
especially
DDOS,
frequently
threaten basic
functionality
of the
Internet. It
has an
international
strategic
value and
promotes
lawful
behavior far
more than it
hurts. It's
used to create
cleaner, safer
networks.
There are
countless
documented
instances
where WHOIS
played a key
role and where
the
replacement
system would
have allowed
the malicious
behavior to
continue. All
of these facts
have been
conveniently
left out of
the question,
and since the
lawyer can't
be expected to
know all this,
he has no
choice but to
conclude that
the legitimate
interests
provided are
too weak.
</allison></b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">Havent
gone through
it yet, will
do so as i get
time.
Expecting to
see the same
result one can
expect when
one doesn't
represent
entire groups
of
constituencies.<br
class="">
[Chuck Gomes]
What do you
mean by
representing
‘entire groups
of
constituencies’?
Do you
represent an
entire
constituency?
Are you aware
of any
constituencies
who are not
represented in
the WG? If
so, please
encourage them
to
participate.</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b
class=""><allison>Dozens
of people
joined this
mailing list
after numerous
events
demonstrated
that this
working group
did not
consider the
overall well
being of the
Internet, and
had a
completely
skewed idea of
the problems
the Internet
faces today.
People were
outraged that
this group was
going in the
direction it
was going,
ignoring how
the Internet
actually
works. The
fact that
these
questions were
chosen- and
the fact that
the new
membership(especially
those that
joined after
the questions
were initially
asked) were
not given any
opportunity to
provide input
on questions
to the lawyer-
does not
reflect well
on the
leadership of
this working
group. Even
when the
original
questions were
created, as
far as I can
tell, only
people
physically
present at
that meeting
had any chance
to provide
input. For
those of us
with jobs in
operations,
being
ever-present
for this
working group
is impossible,
and none of us
have the
stamina that
some of the
people here
have, because
we are busy
working. </b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b
class="">At
its most
charitable
interpretation,
the choice of
these specific
questions
could be an
innocent
oversight or
miscommunication.
At its least
charitable, it
looks like
ICANN's money
was wasted on
a procedural
trick to keep
facts out of
the
conversation
and continue
to push a
narrow agenda.</b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b
class="">People
from numerous
unrelated
Internet
companies and
law firms
flooded this
group earlier
this year once
sunshine was
shed on this
group's
activities.
Maybe that's
important.
Please take it
seriously.
</allison></b></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Wed, Sep 27,
2017 at 6:22
PM, Michael
Peddemors <<a
href="mailto:michael@linuxmagic.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">michael@linuxmagic.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<p
class="MsoNormal">IMHO,
If ICANN
cannot figure
out how to
make a proper
functioning
WHOIS policy,
we have to
remember that
the community
at large will,
and then
simply, ICANN
will loose
relevance on
this issue.<br
class="">
<br class="">
No one passed
a law that a
mail server
had to have a
functioning
PTR record,
(well yes,
some
international
spam
legislations
clearly
spelled out
the need for
clearly
specifying the
operator) but
if you want to
send email
today,
functionally
you need a PTR
record.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Only problem
is, that often
it is the
biggest
players that
set those
standards, and
it is the role
of
organizations
like ICANN to
level the
field, and
make sure that
directions
aren't
dictated by
the biggest
players on the
block, and
never more so
in a world of
consolidation
and cloud
providers.<br
class="">
<br class="">
I think it was
Yahoo that was
one of the
first big
players to
simply not
accept
connections
from IP(s)
with no PTR,
and I know we
were one of
the early
adopters to
that
strategy..<br
class="">
<br class="">
So, I can see
a day that if
privacy
advocates
and/or EU
legislation
fears prevent
such a Best
Practice as
proper WHOIS
records, the
service
providers will
simply choose
practices,
such as 'you
cannot access
our service
unless you
have public
whois
information
available'.<br
class="">
<br class="">
It would be
far better if
ICANN can
understand the
importance of
that need, and
make a
statement that
everyone can
get behind and
point to, that
levels that
field, in
'spite' of
possible
contradictory
privacy
information.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Let's just
simple keep
these two
conversations
separate, one
should NOT
affect the
other, this
isn't a
privacy vs
information
publishing
standards
issue, we can
have both.<br
class="">
<br class="">
(And again, I
assert that
simply
'informed
consent' can
always deal
with any
situations
where they
conflict)<br
class="">
<br class="">
--
Michael --<br
class="">
<br class="">
PS, my concern
is that this
lengthy
wrangling
prevents real
work from
getting done,
and the
participants
who are
integral to
this
conversation
will fall by
the way side,
and the
lobbyist's
will simply
wear them down
..<br class="">
<br class="">
Some of us
have real jobs
too..<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On 17-09-27
02:58 PM, John
Bambenek via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">
<p
class="MsoNormal">A
simple policy
proscription
would be, for
instance, to
say under US
law if you get
a domain under
the control of
a US
registrar, we
need you to
consent to
full
disclosure.
Don't like it,
pick a
European
ccTLD. I don't
advocate that,
mind you, but
that's the
kind of policy
balkanization
could produce.<br
class="">
<br class="">
j<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On 09/27/2017
04:31 PM, Paul
Keating wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
12pt;"
class=""><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div
class="h5">I
am failing to
understand how
such a
walled-garden
approach will
solve
anything.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="http://1.eu/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">1.EU</a>
registrars/registries
would
still have to
deal with
GDPR.<br
class="">
<br class="">
2.Registrars
are not aided
by the
distinction
since they
would still
end up with EU
customers and
EU registrant
data.<br
class="">
<br class="">
PRK<br
class="">
<br class="">
From: <<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@<wbr
class="">icann.org</a>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr class="">bounces@icann.org</a>>>
on behalf of
jonathan
matkowsky <<a
href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net</a>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">jonathan.matkowsky@<wbr
class="">riskiq.net</a>>><br
class="">
Date:
Wednesday,
September 27,
2017 at 11:03
PM<br class="">
To: Rubens
Kuhl <<a
href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rubensk@nic.br</a>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rubensk@nic.br</a>>><br
class="">
</div>
</div>
Cc: RDS PDP WG
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.<wbr
class="">org</a>>><span
class=""><br
class="">
Subject: Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
WSGR Final
Memorandum<br
class="">
<br class="">
</span>
Assuming
for argument's
sake that's
true without
taking any<br
class="">
position
as I'm still
catching up
from a week
ago, I'm not
sure<br
class="">
this
should be
dismissed
without
consideration
as a
possibility,<br
class="">
although
obviously not
by any stretch
of the
imagination
ideal --><br
class="">
non-EU
registrars
block EU
registrants,
and registries
contract<br
class="">
with
non-EU
registrars.<br
class="">
<br class="">
On Tue,
Sep 26, 2017
at 8:25 PM,
Rubens Kuhl
<<a
href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rubensk@nic.br</a><br
class="">
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rubensk@nic.br</a>>>
wrote:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<div class=""><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">
On Sep
26, 2017, at
7:17 PM, John
Horton<br
class="">
<<a
href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">john.horton@legitscript.com</a><br
class="">
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">john.horton@<wbr
class="">legitscript.com</a>>>
wrote:<br
class="">
<br class="">
Much
of this
problem goes
away if we all
agree that
EU-based<br
class="">
registrars
should
henceforth
only be
allowed to
accept<br
class="">
registrants in
the EU. Aside
from the
effect on EU<br
class="">
registrars'
revenue,
what's the
logical
argument
against that<br
class="">
from a
policy
perspective?<br
class="">
<br class="">
After
all, isn't the
purpose of the
GDPR to
protect _EU<br
class="">
residents_?</p>
</blockquote>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
That's
correct, but
the conclusion
is not. Non-EU
registrars<br
class="">
are
also subject
to GDPR if
targeting EU
customers,
which<br
class="">
could
be as simple
as providing
services in EU
languages and<br
class="">
accepting
registration
transactions
from the EU.<br
class="">
So,
for the
problem to go
away non-EU
registrars
would need to<br
class="">
block
EU
registrants,
and registries
would only be
able to<br
class="">
enter
contracts with
non-EU
registrars.<br
class="">
<br class="">
So EU
users would
either be
happy using
numeric IP
addresses,<br
class="">
or
develop a
naming system
of their own.
Then we would
have<br
class="">
balkanisation,
this time
actually
including the
original
balkans.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Rubens<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
______________________________<wbr
class="">_________________<br
class="">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg
mailing list<br
class="">
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<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br
class="">
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</blockquote>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
-- <br
class="">
"Catch the
Magic of
Linux..."<br
class="">
------------------------------<wbr class="">------------------------------<wbr
class="">------------<br
class="">
Michael
Peddemors,
President/CEO
LinuxMagic
Inc.<br
class="">
Visit us at <a
href="http://www.linuxmagic.com/" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.linuxmagic.com</a>
@linuxmagic<br
class="">
------------------------------<wbr class="">------------------------------<wbr
class="">------------<br
class="">
A Wizard IT
Company - For
More Info <a
href="http://www.wizard.ca/" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://www.wizard.ca</a><br class="">
"LinuxMagic" a
Registered
TradeMark of
Wizard Tower
TechnoServices
Ltd.<br
class="">
------------------------------<wbr class="">------------------------------<wbr
class="">------------<br
class="">
<a
href="tel:604-682-0300"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">604-682-0300</a> Beautiful
British
Columbia,
Canada<br
class="">
<br class="">
This email and
any electronic
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class="">
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class="">
Please note
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class="">
those of the
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company. </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br
class="">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class="">
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href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
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class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
<br class=""
clear="all">
</p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">--
</p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr
class="">___<br
class="">
Note to self:
Pillage BEFORE
burning.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________</pre>
<pre class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
<br class=""
clear="all">
</p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">--
</p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr
class="">___<br
class="">
Note to self:
Pillage BEFORE
burning.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br
class="">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br
class="">
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target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr
class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________</pre>
<pre class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="">-- </pre>
<pre class="">Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Mit freundlichen Grüßen,</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre class="">- Rechtsabteilung -</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a></pre>
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<pre class="">Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.</pre>
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<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">66386 St. Ingbert</a></pre>
<pre class="">Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a></pre>
<pre class="">Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a></pre>
<pre class="">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">CEO: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre class="">Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre class="">V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr
class="">_________________<br
class="">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr
class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="">-- </pre>
<pre class="">Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Mit freundlichen Grüßen,</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre class="">- Rechtsabteilung -</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">66386 St. Ingbert</a></pre>
<pre class="">Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a></pre>
<pre class="">Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a></pre>
<pre class="">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre class="">Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre class="">Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">------------------------------<wbr class="">--------------</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Best regards,</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre class="">- legal department -</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">66386 St. Ingbert</a></pre>
<pre class="">Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a></pre>
<pre class="">Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a></pre>
<pre class="">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">CEO: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre class="">Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre class="">V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br
class="">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg
mailing list<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr
class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
<br class="" clear="all">
</p>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr
class="">___<br
class="">
Note to self: Pillage
BEFORE burning.</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br
class="">
<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="">-- </pre>
<pre class="">Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Mit freundlichen Grüßen,</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre class="">- Rechtsabteilung -</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">66386 St. Ingbert</a></pre>
<pre class="">Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a></pre>
<pre class="">Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a></pre>
<pre class="">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre class="">Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre class="">Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">------------------------------<wbr class="">--------------</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Best regards,</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre class="">- legal department -</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">66386 St. Ingbert</a></pre>
<pre class="">Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a></pre>
<pre class="">Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a></pre>
<pre class="">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">CEO: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre class="">Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre class="">V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
<br class="" clear="all">
</p>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr
class="">___<br class="">
Note to self: Pillage BEFORE
burning.</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="">-- </pre>
<pre class="">Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Mit freundlichen Grüßen,</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre class="">- Rechtsabteilung -</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">66386 St. Ingbert</a></pre>
<pre class="">Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a></pre>
<pre class="">Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a></pre>
<pre class="">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre class="">Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre class="">Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">------------------------------<wbr class="">--------------</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Best regards,</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre class="">- legal department -</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">66386 St. Ingbert</a></pre>
<pre class="">Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a></pre>
<pre class="">Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a></pre>
<pre class="">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a></pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">CEO: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre class="">Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre class="">V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
<pre class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre class=""> </pre>
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