<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><div><div>Agreed,</div><div><br></div><div>Additionally, I doubt that any registry maintains sufficient data to track prior “instances of registration”. Nor can I see a reason why they would want to expend the resources to do so.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Paul</div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 3:48 PM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:paul@law.es">paul@law.es</a>>, Chuck <<a href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com">consult@cgomes.com</a>>, 'jonathan matkowsky' <<a href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net">jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net</a>>, 'Sara Bockey' <<a href="mailto:sbockey@godaddy.com">sbockey@godaddy.com</a>>, <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Proposed Agreement for Original Registration Date<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"><div>
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<p>Hi Paul, <br>
</p>
<p>I don't disagree. A domain registration RDS entry should list the
data pertaining to the current registration, not that of previous
registrations. The differentiation here is between the Creation
Date as used in todays RDS and the Original Creation data, as
proposed by the EWG. The latter would pertain to previous
registrations of the same string, not the current one and
therefore would be the "odd man out". <br>
</p>
<p>This additional field might also open the door to a complete
history of previous registrations, complete with previous
registrants of previous domains as well as previous registrants of
the current domain. I hope we will never go there.</p>
<p>The Created Date should only refer to the current registry object
(domain registration), e.g. the time and date the "AddDomain" was
processed by the registry. Transfers and ownership updates
obviously do not influence this date, neither would deletions
followed by a restore. But deletions followed by a new
registration would.</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 10.10.2017 um 15:36 schrieb Paul
Keating:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:D6029720.B3AAB%25Paul@law.es">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;">Volker,</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;">You wrote below:</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;">
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px; border:none;
padding:0px;">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px; border:none;
padding:0px;">
<p>I still think that the only date that should be
included is the creation date of a domain name as all
potential previous registrations of the same string
refer to a different domain object. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>A domain that once existed and has been permanently
deleted at the registry level is not the same as a
domain registered when the string became available
again, and we should not try to conflate both into one
object. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Volker</p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;">The problem I have is that we need to be very
careful with terminology. As used today, Creation Date
signifies the first date of a domain name’s CURRENT registration
cycle. If a domain expires AND is deleted and THEN newly
registered again, this new registration will result in a NEW
CREATION DATE. A domain name that “expires” but is purchased
during a drop auction is not deleted and thus the Creation Date
will remain the same. This is because the registration merely
transfers (since of course domains are intangibles and evidenced
only by registration records).</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">Given that this is the case I
do not see any need for an "</font><font size="3" face="Calibri">Original Registration Date” unless its purpose
is to track whether or not a domain name has been registered,
deleted and re-registered.</font></div>
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri"><br>
</font></div>
<div>If this is a semiotical issue then I believe that “Creation
Date” is much more accurate as it references the creation of the
instance of registration. Original Registration Date would
imply that it served a purpose by showing the first date upon
which a domain was registered, even if it had expired AND been
deleted. I see no purpose in such data but am open to being
convinced. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Furthermore, I do not believe that registries maintain the
data necessary to determine whether or not the domain had ever
been registered. </div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;">Paul</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt;
text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT:
0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;
BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
on behalf of Chuck <<a href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com" moz-do-not-send="true">consult@cgomes.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Tuesday, October
10, 2017 at 2:59 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> 'jonathan
matkowsky' <<a href="mailto:jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net" moz-do-not-send="true">jonathan.matkowsky@riskiq.net</a>>,
'Sara Bockey' <<a href="mailto:sbockey@godaddy.com" moz-do-not-send="true">sbockey@godaddy.com</a>>, 'Volker
Greimann' <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>,
<<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Proposed Agreement for Original Registration
Date<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What do you mean when you say RDS?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chuck<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose" moz-do-not-send="true"><o:p> </o:p></a></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>jonathan matkowsky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 10, 2017 2:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sara Bockey <<a href="mailto:sbockey@godaddy.com" moz-do-not-send="true">sbockey@godaddy.com</a>>;
Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Proposed
Agreement for Original Registration Date<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi. Yes but this is the RDS. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 2:09
AM Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
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<div>
<pre>Hi Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>the domain object ID is indeed part of the whois:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>From the Whois of a .org domain -> Registry Domain ID: D104189961-LROR<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>From the Whois of a .com domain -> Registry Domain ID: 4065057_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>From the Whois of a .Saarland domain -> Registry Domain ID: 8932212620_DOMAIN-SAAR<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>It is a unique identifier for a registration.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Best,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 10.10.2017 um 05:18
schrieb jonathan matkowsky:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is the Domain Object
ID displayed?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Oct 9, 2017
at 3:34 PM Sara Bockey <<a href="mailto:sbockey@godaddy.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sbockey@godaddy.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
agree with Volker.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Sara
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:1.0pt"><b>sara
bockey</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:1.0pt"><b>sr.
policy manager | GoDaddy<sup>™</sup></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:1.0pt"><b><a href="mailto:sbockey@godaddy.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sbockey@godaddy.com</a>
480-366-3616</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>skype:
sbockey</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;background:white">This email message
and any attachments hereto is
intended for use only by the
addressee(s) named herein and
may contain confidential
information. If you have
received this email in error,
please immediately notify
the sender and permanently
delete the original and any
copy of this message and its
attachments.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
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0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
on behalf of Volker Greimann
<<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, October
9, 2017 at 1:13 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
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0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Proposed
Agreement for Original
Registration Date</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p>I still think that the only date
that should be included is the
creation date of a domain name as
all potential previous
registrations of the same string
refer to a different domain
object. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>A domain that once existed and
has been permanently deleted at
the registry level is not the same
as a domain registered when the
string became available again, and
we should not try to conflate both
into one object. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Volker<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Am
02.10.2017 um 05:28 schrieb
jonathan matkowsky:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The
point is that without it,
you run the risk of
misunderstandings of what
the creation date implies
for starters. While that
could be mitigated arguably
with disclaimers, there’s no
personal information in
indicating whether there are
known prior registration
dates and the expert working
group recommended that
original registration date
be included. This is just
more accurate. Plus the
Whois is the most direct
evidence without necessarily
having to ask for documents
that would include personal
information. So this
potentially reduces the need
for personal information
disclosure. If someone
wants to get their domain
back that inadvertently
lapsed, there would be an
indicator that it was
previously registered
without having to
necessarily prove it. Plus
records can more easily be
forged. This couldn’t be.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 12:30
PM Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p>Surely there are many
other ways an individual
could prove the original
registration date of a
domain, other than it
being in the WHOIS?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Stephanie Perrin<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
2017-09-28 18:22,
jonathan matkowsky
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">There
is a lot going on in
the last week, and I
am *still* playing
catch up. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I apologize
with the
religious high
holidays at the
end of last week
and my travel
right before
that, I dropped
the ball, but I
want to
emphasize that
the poll that
was circulated
framing the
issue as to
whether there is
a requirement
for the Original
Registration
Date in the EWG
Final Report is
not the issue in
my humble
opinion. The
issue is whether
it was
recommended. And
it was. Very
clearly. And for
good reasons.
Some of those
were specified
in the EWG Final
Report on page
132, and
illustrated in
the annex
thereto. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">There are
many very
important
reasons why this
recommendation
was being made
from my
perspective. I'm
not going to
re-hash them. I
am convinced
that the reasons
why the EWG as a
whole made this
recommendation
would be best
satisfied by the
counter and
indicator of
unknown or yes
status. To just
focus on the
technical
reasons why they
could have done
a better job
defining the
Original
Registration
Date element as
a justification
to dismiss the
*importance* of
the element on
the basis it was
not required
would be
unfortunate.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Domains may
be registered
and deleted
throughout the
day literally
within fifteen
minutes apart.
Others who lose
their domain
inadvertently
and then want to
use that
original
registration
date as a point
of reference in
domain recovery
should not lose
that
opportunity. On
the flip side,
to be fair,
someone who is
the subject of a
UDRP deserves
the opportunity
to point to the
original
registration
date as evidence
the domain was
allowed to
lapse. When
valuating domain
names for sale,
it is important
that there be a
public record
that there may
be a cloud on
the title. etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The fact that
it's unknown
there is a prior
existing
registration is
important
information. It
let's people
know that the
creation date
does not mean it
is the first
time the string
has ever been
created while at
the same time
letting us know
when we know for
sure that there
has been such a
prior
registration in
the future when
deletions are
tracked. While
technically that
may be obvious
to us here, that
is not
necessarily
obvious to many
who rely on
Whois. So the
fact it is set
to unknown
serves a very
important
purpose.
Furthermore,
when it is
actually known,
that is vital
information to
provide (nobody
said registry
operators have
to gather
historical data
that is
burdensome or
that some might
not even have).
I am not
convinced it is
too much to ask
registry
operators to
keep track of
deletions in the
future. Doing so
may not be hard
to implement and
would meet the
recommendations
of the EWG. Part
of the work we
are doing here
has to have
long-term vision
and not just
whether it is
helpful in the
short term for
our personal or
commercial
purposes at
hand. A lot of
people in future
generations are
counting on us.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The
particular date
is not as
important to
meet the
underlying
objectives of
the EWG in
coming up with
this
recommendation.
I would also not
dismiss outright
how this counter
will eventually
serve an
important
function as an
indicator of
severe abuse
that is taking
place behind the
scenes that
nobody has easy
access to see
but can be in
the future would
be more readily
apparent from
following the
EWG's
recommendation
in this regard
(albeit,
interpreting
their
recommendation
more liberally
to satisfy the
policy
considerations
and purposes
they
identified). <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">All of that
said, I
recognize and
respect that
others may
disagree on
this. I would at
least then
recommend that
we ensure that
the specific ID
number that must
be collected
anyway from an
engineering
perspective is
required to
actually be
*displayed* to
tenuously meet
the objectives
of the EWG
indirectly since
its being
exposed in a
protocol anyway
by definition.
While this is a
lot more work
and not as
helpful to many
Internet users
as the
compromised
suggestion to
meet their
recommendation,
at least we have
protection
assuming there
are historical
records as
readily
available as
today and that
people can point
out the
different object
ID numbers for
these strings
and explain what
that means. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Okay, I'm
moving on unless
there is a group
that feels based
on what I've
said, that we
should at least
re-visit
briefly. I
recognize that
there are *many*
on this string
with a lot more
experience than
me and knowledge
coming from
different
vantage points,
but feel it is
important to at
least lay this
out in case
others agree, as
I wasn't on the
call and
couldn't chime
in, in as a
timely manner
for which I
express my
regrets.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Jonathan <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Fri, Sep
22, 2017 at 7:45
AM, Chuck <<a href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">consult@cgomes.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I want to
request that
any members
who think
there is value
in the
'counter'<br>
data element
to please
answer Paul's
question: "
So the utility
of the<br>
counter seems
highly
limited. Does
it even<br>
deliver the
usefulness
that its
proponents
want it to?"
Please share
what<br>
you think that
value is on
this list by
Monday of next
week.<br>
<br>
Chuck<br>
<br>
-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of
Paul Keating<br>
Sent:
Thursday,
September 21,
2017 8:32 AM<br>
To: Greg Aaron
<<a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gca@icginc.com</a>>; Andrew
Sullivan <<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>>;<br>
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
Subject: Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Proposed
Agreement for
Original
Registration<br>
Date<br>
<br>
And what is
the intended
purpose sought
to be
achieved?<br>
<br>
On 9/21/17,
5:15 PM, "Greg
Aaron" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
on<br>
behalf of <a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gca@icginc.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
>The upshot
is that the
counter would
probably start
at "Unknown"
for<br>
>all
existing
domains.<br>
>* Once
implemented,
the feature
has little
usefulness
until years in<br>
>the
future, when
some domains
get
re-registered
and those
strings<br>
>accumulate
some history.<br>
>* But many
domains get
renewed year
after year.
Those wouldn't<br>
>accumulate
counter
history, and
would be set
to Unknown
either
forever,<br>
>or for
long periods
if they are
ever allowed
to expire and
if they are<br>
>then
re-registered.
This is a
significant
portion of
domains. For<br>
>example
.COM has an
renewal rate
of around 72%.<br>
><br>
>So the
utility of the
counter seems
highly
limited. Does
it even<br>
>deliver
the usefulness
that its
proponents
want it to?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>-----Original Message-----<br>
>From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
>[mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of
Andrew
Sullivan<br>
>Sent:
Thursday,
September 21,
2017 10:49 AM<br>
>To: <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
>Subject:
Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Proposed
Agreement for
Original<br>
>Registration Date<br>
><br>
>On Thu,
Sep 21, 2017
at 02:28:39PM
+0000, Greg
Aaron wrote:<br>
>> The
alternate
proposal is a
simple marker
that says
whether there
has<br>
>>been a
known previous
iteration of
the domain
string, having
been<br>
>>registered with a different ROID.<br>
>><br>
><br>
>Or a
counter, of
course, rather
than just the
marker. From
the point<br>
>of view of
implementation
in a database,
I think these
two options
are<br>
>approximately the same, so I prefer the counter because it provides
an<br>
>additional
bit of data
(that is, that
the domain is
changing --
you can<br>
>watch it
happen).<br>
><br>
>> And
it still
presents the
same
operational
problem: the
registry has<br>
>>to
figure out
whether a
string has
existed
before. That
is something<br>
>>registries are not designed to do. And they may not have the<br>
>>necessary historical records. See the notes below.<br>
>><br>
><br>
>Well, no,
that's part of
the point of
the new
proposal: the
registry<br>
>_doesn't_
have to figure
that out,
because the
counter can be
set to<br>
>"unknown"
(in a SQL
database,
you'd probably
use NULL). To
support<br>
>this
feature,
however, the
registry would
have to track
deletions of<br>
>domain
names in the
future. So it
wouldn't be
free, but it
also<br>
>wouldn't
be hard to
implement.
(Any real SQL
database, for
instance,<br>
>could do
this with an
ON DELETE
trigger.)<br>
><br>
>Best
regards,<br>
><br>
>A<br>
><br>
>--<br>
>Andrew
Sullivan<br>
><a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">*******************************************************************<br>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">_______________________________________________<br>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing
list<br>
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Jonathan
Matkowsky<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">*******************************************************************<br>
This message was sent from
RiskIQ, and is intended only
for the designated
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protections. If you are not a
designated recipient, you may
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this message. If you receive
this in error, please notify
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" moz-do-not-send="true">66386 St. Ingbert</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jonathan Matkowsky<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">*******************************************************************<br>
This message was sent from RiskIQ, and is
intended only for the designated
recipient(s). It may contain confidential
or proprietary information and may be
subject to confidentiality protections. If
you are not a designated recipient, you
may not review, copy or distribute this
message. If you receive this in error,
please notify the sender by reply e-mail
and delete this message. Thank
you.*******************************************************************</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></a></pre>
<pre><span class="MsoHyperlink"><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" moz-do-not-send="true">66386 St. Ingbert</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>--------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></a></pre>
<pre><span class="MsoHyperlink"><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" moz-do-not-send="true">66386 St. Ingbert</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jonathan Matkowsky<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">*******************************************************************<br>
This message was sent from RiskIQ, and is intended
only for the designated recipient(s). It may contain
confidential or proprietary information and may be
subject to confidentiality protections. If you are
not a designated recipient, you may not review, copy
or distribute this message. If you receive this in
error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and
delete this message. Thank you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">*******************************************************************</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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</span>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div></div></blockquote></span></body></html>