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<p>I absolutely agree with the basic premise of the statement.<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 27.10.2017 um 01:57 schrieb
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com">consult@cgomes.com</a>:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Does anyone disagree with this: “<span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">the
common goal here is to create policy that enables as robust
and fully featured RDS as is possible without violating the
law</span>”?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chuck<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"
moz-do-not-send="true"><o:p> </o:p></a></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg
Shatan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 24, 2017 12:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rubens Kuhl <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br"><rubensk@nic.br></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> GNSO RDS PDP <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] another document that
might be of interest<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
following statement troubles me greatly:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
real battle here is between registrants in one side, and
affected parties in the other. The balance always
favoured affected parties from the beginning, and people
got used to it; now that new laws are moving the needle
towards registrants, there is resistance among those
that got used to being favoured.</span><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">This
is a false dichotomy for several reasons. First, the
"affected parties" are, in many cases, engaged in
consumer protection, anti-abuse (of many different
types), anti-counterfeiting and other activities that
benefit registrants -- and more broadly, the security,
stability of the Internet and trust in the Internet.
Second, the "registrants" aren't really in the battle.
We have people advocating for greatly expanded privacy
protections, but they are not representing the
registrants. They may sincerely believe the speak for
the registrants, or believe they know what's best for
the registrants -- or may just be privacy advocates.
Whether privacy benefits the vast majority of
registrants -- and whether the benefits outweigh the
costs -- is very much an open question. (We've heard
about some edge cases through anecdotes, but that is not
indicative of anything but bits of the edge.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Setting
"affected parties" against "registrants" is likely to
keep us mired in an unproductive "locked-horns" mode.
Maybe it benefits the privacy camp to delay until things
fall apart, but that is not governance, and I truly hope
that is not the agenda (I choose to believe we are just
in the "messy and slow" mode of multistakeholderism --
unfortunately time and mess are not our friends here.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">If
the common goal here is to create policy that enables as
robust and fully featured RDS as is possible without
violating the law, then we could have a common goal.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Figuring
out how to deal with GDPR and what it really requires
and looking for ways to live with it are not elements of
denial. They are elements of analysis. Saying that
GDPR is going to throw a big, wet blanket over
everything is not analysis -- it is an attempt to wield
the GDPR as the latest weapon in a long battle that has
occupied ICANN (and many other spaces) for a long time.
If we could turn our collective wisdom to problem
solving, we could make some real headway here.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 11:41 AM,
Rubens Kuhl <<a href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rubensk@nic.br</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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> On Oct 22, 2017, at 11:38 AM, John Bambenek via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> I would argue that their views are uninformed on
other points of view or other changes that could be made
that would satisfy their objectives which is similar but
has important differences. So I disagree we are at the
point we are violating EU law.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately we are already violating EU law. We are
only not been sanctioned for it, because the law specify
an adjusting period. Just read all the legal memos we
already got.<br>
<br>
> EU DPAs may never change their mind.<br>
<br>
EU courts are a viable way to make government officials
change their mind, if you think that's a matter of
interpretation.<br>
<br>
> I’ll just get US law changed so that US entities
offering domains have to list ownership information
which means most if not all of the gTLDs I care about if
not ICANN also.<br>
<br>
You know that Verisign, Facebook and Amazon already have
subsidiaries in EU, right ? And they can move their
contracts there if being in the US becomes a competitive
handicap ?<br>
<br>
> We aren’t there yet because the DPAs are only
starting to hear from us. Until now these discussions
were populated by ICANN and registrars/registries who
want whois to go away anyway.<br>
<br>
Frankly, registries and registrars couldn't care less
about WHOIS. It's just a cost of doing business. The
real battle here is between registrants in one side, and
affected parties in the other. The balance always
favoured affected parties from the beginning, and people
got used to it; now that new laws are moving the needle
towards registrants, there is resistance among those
that got used to being favoured.<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> This solitary focus on EU law presupposes that
people believe that of the laws of the ~200 countries in
the world, it is EU law that should be the controlling
force of internet governance. Is that what you are
saying?<br>
<br>
<br>
EU privacy law is just the first of many laws pointing
in a similar direction, so it's not just a matter of
following one jurisdiction, is about following a trend.<br>
<span style="color:#888888"><br>
<br>
<span class="hoenzb">Rubens</span><br>
<br>
</span><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
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href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
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