<div><div dir="auto">Hi, I said it’s failing to work. Not that it has failed. One example is I am seeing registrars insulating themselves from being accountable for expeditiously investigating abuse complaints on the basis they don’t have access to their own customer information as a proxy exists. The companies setting up those proxies don’t even know what’s in their own account. And the registrar has a difficult time discerning whether their own customer has been compromised or not. It’s malicious to set up proxy for the purpose of insulating oneself from being accountable to the public when you know full well your domain will be used to deliver content to thousands—some of whom foreseeably will use your infrastructure for criminal purposes. There appears to be lobbying that creates a system that has no accountability. I have some ideas how to solve this problem but that’s not for this group.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"> I suppose if RDS can be developed with access to verified data needed in a timely manner with no rate limiting issues, the system may actually work to solve some of these accountability issues that exist. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">More specifically, see <a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/2017-October/004728.html">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/2017-October/004728.html</a> though, as I think this is a breakdown too. Maybe I just missed the answer though on where leadership came out on this? I have been waiting to know.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I also welcomed the memo from COE. It’s important feedback to have as part of the big picture. It was helpful. There’s a lot to do. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But we can’t just rush in a week or two to try and finalize the purposes when all the limitations will flow from those purpose statements! We need some time to cross-reference the data elements from the relevant RFC with each purpose. So I feel we are being rushed when it comes to the substantive work we need to do here now that we have finally started getting the guidance. That’s a problem.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I am going through the exercise but won’t be done until after Abu Dhabi. Can we please adjust the schedule to permit for a bit more time? Especially if we are to review the other groups work as well?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Hope to see you in person.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers,</div><div dir="auto">Jonathan </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 4:38 PM <<a href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com">consult@cgomes.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_4017917306311231480WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">Jonathan,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I am curious what criteria you used to determine that the multi-stakeholder process doesn’t work.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Chuck<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_4017917306311231480__MailEndCompose"><u></u> <u></u></a></p><span></span><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>jonathan matkowsky<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 26, 2017 4:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> Theo Geurts <<a href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] More mandatory reading in preparation for ICANN AD<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_4017917306311231480WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Hi, everyone - I am not getting into Abu Dhabi until Monday. It's very sad to see the open Internet breaking down as a result of the multistakeholder process failing to work. We will end up needing <u>a lot more blocking and at a much higher level than before</u>, so that interstate commerce doesn't collapse into the dark Web. <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Theo Geurts <<a href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">And I am not the person who can change things here. <br><br>Again <br>We need to balance privacy and abuse. <br><br>Build cases not statements.<br><br>Theo <br><br><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 26-10-2017 19:25, John Bambenek wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I am not shooting anyone. Just making my point. <u></u><u></u></p><div id="m_4017917306311231480m_-5247181078262877752AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">John Bambenek<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On Oct 26, 2017, at 19:24, Theo <<a href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Mark my words John,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Don't shoot the messenger here.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Theo<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Verzonden vanaf mijn Windows 10-telefoon<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Van: </b><a href="mailto:jcb@bambenekconsulting.com" target="_blank">John Bambenek</a><br><b>Verzonden: </b>donderdag 26 oktober 2017 19:06<br><b>Aan: </b><a href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">Theo Geurts</a><br><b>CC: </b><a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">Volker Greimann</a>; <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] More mandatory reading in preparation for ICANN AD<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">That is not impossible. I disagree there are 25 checkboxes any more than there will be 25 checkboxes needed to post a tweet. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">The checkbox is “this information will be in a public database and accessible world-wide so others can verify domain ownership and contact you. If you don’t like this, click private registration now.”<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">There is no need to overcomplicate a simple issue. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">--<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">John Bambenek<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> On Oct 26, 2017, at 18:51, Theo Geurts <<a href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> John,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> Let's see.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> Escrow requirements Registry/Registrar.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> Country depended/Company depended and security level depended.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> Data retention spec (tons of data gathered there)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> ICANN, running several WHOIS programs in conjunction with third-party vendors by GAC marching orders.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> WHOIS data being processed by unknown third parties given its current public access.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> Over a 1000 TLDs scattered over all over the globe.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> A simple gTLD registration will require a registrant to click at least 25 checkboxes to consent too.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> This is a conservative prediction and not meant to tick off WG members.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> Theo Geurts<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> On 26-10-2017 18:34, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> Exactly how does this document say that consent is practically impossible when my reading of it provides guidance of how such consent could be achieved?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> As far as private by default, SHOULD is not MUST. The document doesn’t say that’s a hard requirement.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> --<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> John Bambenek<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> On Oct 26, 2017, at 16:01, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> The Council of Europe has just published a guide on privacy and data protection principles specifically for ICANN related data processing.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> TL;DR:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> 1) Data controller needs to define twofold purposes for processing; a) related to policy; b) for contracted parties and their agreements with data subjects.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> 2) Data controller is fully liable for all data processing performed in accordance with purpose statement in compliance with all applicable laws.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> 3) Data processed for purposes not included in purpose statement is unlawful.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> 4) Data processing must be limited by guiding principles of necessity, proportionality and purpose limitation<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> 5) Data processing based on consent is practically impossible in ICANN context.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> 6) Personal data must not be stored for longer than absolutely necessary for the legitimate purpose pursued.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> 7) ICANN needs formal data transfer policy for trans-border transfers.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> 8) Privacy by design and default as basis for all processing considerations.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> -- <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Volker A. Greimann<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> - Rechtsabteilung -<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Key-Systems GmbH<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g">66386 St. Ingbert</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396</a> 901<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396</a> 851<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> --------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Volker A. Greimann<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> - legal department -<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Key-Systems GmbH<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g">66386 St. Ingbert</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396</a> 901<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396</a> 851<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <ICANN_privacy_guide_COE.pdf><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> _______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> _______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>_______________________________________________<br>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_4017917306311231480WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><br><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">*******************************************************************<br>This message was sent from RiskIQ, and is intended only for the designated recipient(s). It may contain confidential or proprietary information and may be subject to confidentiality protections. If you are not a designated recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you receive this in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">*******************************************************************</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Jonathan Matkowsky</div>
<br>
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