<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Hi John, </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think we need to leave politics aside and turn back to RDS.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Unfortunately it is not possible to say to Law Enforcement Agency or Bailiffs when they come to the office of one's company, </div><div class="">that the person does not believe in the particular law and thus not following it and to expect good followup from them. </div><div class="">(Example relevant to US - <span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 12.6px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgba(0, 127, 255, 0.133333);" class="">case no. 5:06-cr-00022-WTH-GRJ</span>).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Given the fines proposed by the particular GDRP law, Internet might go dark due to Registries & Registrars being fined to </div><div class="">the degree of bankruptcy (20M EUR is something very few of the DNS industry companies might survive), and it is worse than gated access to RDS as a future.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I do not think we propose total anonymity (the same Law Enforcement Agencies / GAC will definitely be agains it), </div><div class="">leaving traces of unique Registrant and domain ROIS will allow to make investigations and might </div><div class="">probably lead to necessity of the special "privacy disclosure procedure" for criminal cases.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">P.s: The bad thing is that GDPR does not recognise special role of the cyber investigation /anti-abuse companies , and to </div><div class="">say more it does not recognise the role of the non-EU Law Enforcement Agencies in their relevant countries outside EU either.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Sincerely Yours,<br class=""><br class="">Maxim Alzoba<br class="">Special projects manager,<br class="">International Relations Department,<br class="">FAITID<br class=""><br class="">m. +7 916 6761580<span style="text-align: -webkit-auto;" class="">(+whatsapp)</span></div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">skype oldfrogger</div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Current UTC offset: +4.00 (Abu Dhabi)</div></div></div>
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 30, 2017, at 16:54, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">My point was more practical than political (aside of the point that when governments talk about privacy, it is rarely if ever privacy from them who historically are the biggest human rights violators). Part of the reason the internet developed the way it has promoting openness and transparency is to be resilient against government abuse. A gated whois with audit trails will inherently allow less friendly governments to profile the activities of those working against them. For instance, I’d rather the Russian government not be aware of what specifically I am looking at while trying to counter their propaganda operations. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Sometimes the best way to protect privacy is mot to create paper trails in the first place. <br class=""><br class=""><div class="">--<div class="">John Bambenek</div></div><div class=""><br class="">On Oct 29, 2017, at 23:13, Theo Geurts <<a href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" class="">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
Hi John, <br class="">
<br class="">
You are correct, seems the politicians I voted for are shooting for
a law that will give the Dutch intelligence agency far-reaching
powers. <br class="">
<br class="">
But this is a political process, and as political processes go, it
is already opposed by a large majority of the general public here. <br class="">
So we are going to enjoy the debate here in Holland for the next 6
months or so ;)<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks, <br class="">
<br class="">
Theo <br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29-10-2017 22:51, John Bambenek via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:AB810FBE-30EC-49C0-B3B3-FB85CD14C7B6@bambenekconsulting.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
Counterpoint before we start celebrating the Dutch approach to
privacy: <a href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1408647" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1408647</a>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">--
<div class="">John Bambenek</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
On Oct 27, 2017, at 04:23, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class=""><span class="">Wow, this is harsh. Nothing unexpected though, as
they are basically just telling you what we have
repreatedly tried telling folks at ICANN for years.</span><br class="">
<span class=""></span><br class="">
<span class="">This is why our work is so important. If we do not do
it well, Whois will go dark! Not out of malice or because
of any nefarious ill will, but out of pure legal
necessity.</span><br class="">
<span class=""></span><br class="">
<span class="">The abuse lobbyists may not like these legal
requirements, but we will have to live with them and act
accordingly. .Amsterdam did what they did because they had
to, not because they felt like it.</span><br class="">
<span class=""></span><br class="">
<span class="">Volker</span><br class="">
<span class=""></span><br class="">
<span class=""></span><br class="">
<span class="">Am 27.10.2017 um 09:08 schrieb Theo Geurts:</span><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""><a href="https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/nl/nieuws/ap-onafgeschermde-publicatie-van-whois-gegevens-strijd-met-de-wet" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/nl/nieuws/ap-onafgeschermde-publicatie-van-whois-gegevens-strijd-met-de-wet</a>
</span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class="">Sorry, for now Dutch only, but
Google translate will help out.</span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class="">Also, consent (Art 6.1b) is a
no go according to the Dutch DPA. As it is not freely
given according to the article.</span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class="">Best,</span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class="">Theo Geurts</span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""></span><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class="">_______________________________________________</span><br class="">
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<span class=""></span><br class="">
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<span class=""></span><br class="">
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