<div dir="ltr">This is the exact attitude I'm referring to. Not specifically only from Volker, but also from other people. This is why Internet users will increasingly turn their backs on ICANN's DNS. Unless the ICANN community steps outside of their bubble and actually recognizes the problems the average Internet user faces. ICANN may have a monopoly on domain names, but it's not immune to consequences caused by bad caretaking. <div><br></div><div>And wholly invalidating the opinions of a blacklist provider that enjoys the largest support base (AFAIK) of average Internet users is a perfect example of this. It is to ignore evidence of a serious defect in your(the collective you) own product, when people are actively trying to notify you of such. <div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
I think we are moving away from the topic, but suffice it to say
that I do not consider their publications evidence. "Domains seen"
indeed... Ignoring them is the better options unless they develop
better methodologies _and_ start sharing them for peer examination.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Volker</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-cite-prefix">Am 29.11.2017 um 18:03 schrieb allison
nixon:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Spamhaus's list IS "actual evidence"
<div><br>
</div>
<div>They are based on domains they have seen, which are e-mails
sent using domains from that registrar. Most of the hate out
there against Spamhaus comes from spammers but they are AFAIK
the largest provider of blocklists out there. That only
happens because their customers see the results they want.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Love them or hate them, you can't ignore them. If Spamhaus
listed an IP range, that range would suffer severe
connectivity issues across the entire Internet. When it comes
to interoperability, Spamhaus's lists effectively matter more
than ICANN's accreditation. The Internet is relying more and
more heavily on these services because ICANN has failed to
keep its product clean.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:51 AM,
Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Interesting statistic, but as it is coming from
Spamhaus, I'll take it with a grain of salt, especially
if the "Domains seen" number does not match the number
of domains a registrar actually has under management. I
am not disputing that some of these registrars may be
problematic, but will reserve judgment until I see some
actual evidence. <br>
<span class="m_-6593500956563796352HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> </font></span></p>
<span class="m_-6593500956563796352HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="m_-6593500956563796352h5"> <br>
<div class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-cite-prefix">Am
29.11.2017 um 17:23 schrieb allison nixon:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Bastiaan,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>>>A question though. I understand how
’TLD blocking’ would work as an effective albeit
sledge hammer way of mitigating certain forms of
spam. And I get the concept of blocking all
traffic coming from particular
hosting-providers, ignoring cases where spoofing
of prefixes is involved. But what exactly is
‘registrar level blocking’?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>>>The example you refer to is (also) a
hosting/cloud-provider - but if that were not
the case, what can ‘blocked’ purely looking at
the registrar service provided?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"registrar level blocking" isn't a feature
that's available to most e-mail inbox owners
because it is a lot more complicated than
writing a wildcard for example *.xyz for an
entire TLD. It would probably require a multi
step process of WHOIS querying the domain ->
parse for registrar -> check block lists. I'm
unsure how the large operators do it exactly.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But if you look at this page:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://www.spamhaus.org/statistics/registrars/" target="_blank">https://www.spamhaus.org/stati<wbr>stics/registrars/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>you can see a list of which registrars
feature most prominently in spam. Registrars
that get to the point have a business model
where they profit from these types of customers.
Alpnames in particular was in the news because
leaked communications revealed they were aware
of the spamming and offered to not suspend the
domains for abuse. A bulletproof registrar, if
you will. Despite this incident, and despite
being on the Spamhaus list of "worst registrars"
months later, they are still an actual registrar
accredited by ICANN. An equally valid
participant in the DNS as any of you here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And that is barely scratching the surface.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So you can also see how the desire to block
an entire registrar's customerbase is directly
linked to ICANN's failure to decertify the
registrar. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Compare this "not my problem" attitude to the
attitude that the Google Chrome team has towards
its list of trusted certificate providers. They
have no qualms about giving the death penalty to
abusers. Google is also requiring companies to
produce "certificate transparency" logs, a real
time feed of all the certs they sign, and who
they are for. Instead of wringing their hands
about privacy solely on the website owner's
side, they understand that these are tools
massively used for abuse and actually take into
account the rights of people being abused by
these tools.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As a result of these differing attitudes, the
Chrome browser enjoys a lot of public trust,
with almost no demand for custom trust lists,
and ICANN's naming system loses legitimacy every
day as the collective masses of the Internet
increasingly turn their backs on them.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at
2:36 AM, Bastiaan Goslings <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bastiaan.goslings@ams-ix.net" target="_blank">bastiaan.goslings@ams-ix.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks, Allison:<br>
<span><br>
> On 28 Nov 2017, at 22:30, allison nixon
<<a href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> I do not believe it is off topic to
consider the downstream implications of the
actions we take. It is of critical
importance!<br>
><br>
> When the WHOIS for .amsterdam and .frl
became largely obfuscated, I was not worried
much about it, because the extremely high
cost of those domains precluded abuse from
them in the first place. For that reason,
nothing happened.<br>
><br>
> In the defender world, if we lose WHOIS
as a reputation factor, other reputation
factors become much more prominent. TLD
blocking is very easy with the tools we
already have, but with the loss of WHOIS we
are going to see a strong upsurge in the
demand for registrar level blocking. So, say
Alpnames is spamming a lot of people, and as
an owner of an e-mail inbox, I don't want to
get any more e-mails from Alpnames
customers. Multiple of my colleagues at
large networks have revealed to me that in
the past, they have done a registrar level
block, and the economic pressure on the
registrars caused them to clean up their act
with an impressive amount of motivation.
It's something that most tools don't
currently support, but likely will in the
future.<br>
><br>
> If the registrars will be the only
people who have any clue who their customers
are, I think we will see a strong shift
towards forcing those registrars to take
more responsibility for their pollution.
This is something I am seeing increasingly
advocated in defender circles, so outsiders
are likely going to see the results of this
in upcoming years.<br>
><br>
> With the direction I see things going,
I believe that anti-abuse will involve
imposing economic pressure on registrars.
It's not unlike how notorious hosting
providers have been de-peered in the past
due to abuse, and there is a lot of legal
precedent to support the legitimacy of this
strategy.<br>
><br>
> Also, many of us outside the ICANN
community don't see the death of the new
TLDs as a bad thing. More people are
interested in blocking them than supporting
them. Companies are also realizing that it
isn't a good idea to run their businesses on
new TLDs. Some of us will cheer when they
finally go away.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span>Without any specific knowledge of the
industry, your line of reasoning makes sense
to me, i.e. ‘If the registrars will be the
only people who have any clue who their
customers are, I think we will see a strong
shift towards forcing those registrars to take
more responsibility’ as well as the
‘anti-abuse will involve imposing economic
pressure on registrars’.<br>
<br>
(Fyi I will not comment on the ’their
pollution’)<br>
<br>
A question though. I understand how ’TLD
blocking’ would work as an effective albeit
sledge hammer way of mitigating certain forms
of spam. And I get the concept of blocking all
traffic coming from particular
hosting-providers, ignoring cases where
spoofing of prefixes is involved. But what
exactly is ‘registrar level blocking’?<br>
<br>
The example you refer to is (also) a
hosting/cloud-provider - but if that were not
the case, what can ‘blocked’ purely looking at
the registrar service provided?<br>
<br>
-Bastiaan<br>
<div>
<div class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 3:11 PM, theo
geurts <<a href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>>
wrote:<br>
> Agreed Kris,<br>
><br>
> Thanks, Allison, though this is, I
guess, the cold hard truth, selling
domains dirt cheap or giving them away is
a sure method to poison a TLD, I think it
is a separate issue when discussing RDS.<br>
><br>
> And the examples are clear, and at a
point, such TLD operators need to re-think
their business model and act accordingly
to keep their TLD alive.<br>
><br>
> So in May 2018, we will see a lot of
use of the privacy services due to the
GDPR, I guess mostly at a Registrar level,
but let's not rule out that it might be on
a Registry level, the dynamics here are
shifting day by day.<br>
> So my question here, and I hope we
can discuss this in good faith, but it
seems to me that the WHOIS will be an
irrelevant factor when it comes to the
risk/reputation score?<br>
> How does/will that play out?<br>
> And yes, this is not exactly related
to our work when it comes to RDS, but
since we have the expertise here, I think
it would be useful to explore this a
little more even though off topic. I hope
the leadership team allows this to get a
better understanding, for the community on
what is going down and might happen in a
just a few months here.<br>
> And if we need to do this offlist,
sure, no problem. I am just trying to get
a sense to here to comply with the law and
keep a business running.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks<br>
><br>
> Theo<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 28-11-2017 20:57, John Bambenek
via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:<br>
>> Full agreement on this point<br>
>><br>
>> On 11/28/2017 01:30 PM, Kris
Seeburn wrote:<br>
>>> As we move on …one way or the
other the GDPR and other aligned privacy
laws will catch up eventually. We will
need to find levels and technical ways and
reasons to get things to work. We move to
RDAPis fine as we look ahead but we should
be able to not only look at the laws that
we need to respect but also to find
technical ways to get and make sure things
still continue towork. As this stage
personally both are as important.<br>
>>><br>
>>>> On Nov 28, 2017, at
23:15, allison nixon <<a href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Most systems operators
are not afraid to block entire TLDs. While
there are no scientific studies out on
this matter AFAIK, the help forums are
littered with people asking how to block
entire TLDs, and also registrants on those
TLDs asking why everyone is blocking them.
It's enough to conclusively say this is
already an issue, and we can thank abuse
for this.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> In this Reddit post, a
user learns the hard truth about his brand
new XYZ domain:<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/6jq6f5/getting_blocked_should_i_abandon_my_xyz_domain/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.reddit.com/r/webde<wbr>v/comments/6jq6f5/getting_bloc<wbr>ked_should_i_abandon_my_xyz_<wbr>domain/</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> This article discusses
Facebook's block of all XYZ domains:<br>
>>>> <a href="http://adamyamada.com/facebook-blocks-xyz-domains-new-domains-pages/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://adamyamada.com/facebook<wbr>-blocks-xyz-domains-new-domain<wbr>s-pages/</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> This Malwarebytes staff
member explains to a legitimate registrant
that all .SCIENCE TLDs are blocked and he
gets no exception:<br>
>>>> <a href="https://forums.malwarebytes.com/topic/173535-all-my-science-domains-blocked/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://forums.malwarebytes.co<wbr>m/topic/173535-all-my-science-<wbr>domains-blocked/</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> In fact, the Malwarebytes
"false positive" forum is littered with
owners of hacked domains that discovered
their problem because of a block, not
because of a notification:<br>
>>>> <a href="https://forums.malwarebytes.com/forum/123-website-blocking/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://forums.malwarebytes.co<wbr>m/forum/123-website-blocking/</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> This user asks for an
'Existing list of garbage "new" TLDs' to
block<br>
>>>> <a href="https://vamsoft.com/forum/topic/597/existing-list-of-garbage-new-tlds" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://vamsoft.com/forum/topi<wbr>c/597/existing-list-of-garbage<wbr>-new-tlds</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> There are 179 Google
search results for people asking
Microsoft's help service for ways to block
entire TLDs:<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+i+block+TLD+site:answers.microsoft.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/search?<wbr>q=how+do+i+block+TLD+site:answ<wbr>ers.microsoft.com</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> There are 72,500 Google
search results for "how to block" "tld":<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=%22how+to+block%22+%22tld%22" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/search?<wbr>q=%22how+to+block%22+%22tld%22</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The Internet is
effectively "broken" for any legitimate
registrants on these TLDs.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> As a seller of some of
those same TLDs, should you be concerned
if your customers purchase domains
rendered useless due to blocking?<br>
>>>> Would you actually refund
a customer if they told you they couldn't
use the domain for e-mail due to the TLD?<br>
>>>> Would you warn your
prospective .XYZ, .STUDY, .PRESS, .PARTY,
etc, customers that they should not use
the domains for e-mail?<br>
>>>> When ICANN releases new
gTLDs in the future, do you think that
those domains will ever be able to send
e-mail?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Truly, the rest of the
world will be fine. The more that ICANN
has the "not my problem" attitude, the
more the rest of the world is going to
push back. ICANN seems to have lost the
ability to release new gTLDs without
severe connectivity issues, so we also
need to ask the question: "why are these
guys selling the digital equivalent of the
scarlet letter and not warning their
customers beforehand?"<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I think the question of
selling defective products is one that
needs to be addressed more seriously by
regulators and outside parties.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I can also tell you that
security vendors are already looking into
other anti-abuse techniques for domains
post-WHOIS, and I can also tell you that
they will result in an increase in the
percentage of legitimate domains that are
blocked. This is your problem now.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at
12:43 PM, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>>> Hi Andrew,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> re:hotbed I was rather
intending to ask whether there is a direct
correllation between TLDs with redacted
whois and issues that go unresolved. So do
you have more unresolved issues in .<a href="http://co.uk" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">co.uk</a>
than in .com (if numbers are normalized
for registered domain names).<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I am sure no one would
consider blocking the entire mail traffic
originating from the United Kingdom Top
Level Domain just because you cannot
resolve some issues in a few domains,
correct?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> So if everyone followed
their (or a similar) model, the internet
would not break. Some issues would get
harder to solve (or take longer). I am
asking because that is what most likely
will happen on May 25 or sooner.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Volker<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Am 28.11.2017 um 18:27
schrieb Andrew Sullivan:<br>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at
04:31:56PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:<br>
>>>> case of internet
operability issues. While I appreciate
that there can be<br>
>>>> issues that would
necessitate the ability to quickly contact
whoever can fix<br>
>>>> the issue, I wonder how
this problem is solved in TLDs where whois
is<br>
>>>> already redacted.<br>
>>>> It's not. In that case,
if I am the one who has this experience
and I<br>
>>>> can't reach the target,
then the problem goes unresolved. In mail<br>
>>>> cases, as John suggests
elsewhere in this thread, the answer is
very<br>
>>>> likely that mail is
blocked. People seem surprised these days
that<br>
>>>> mail is so fragile, but
this sort of thing is part of the reason.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> So how does it work
there? Are these TLDs hotbeds of DNS
issues and<br>
>>>> unresolved problems?<br>
>>>> I don't know what you
mean by "hotbed", or whether that is
intended to<br>
>>>> be dismissive. Some TLDs
defintely have more DNS problems than<br>
>>>> others. Given how hard
the DNS works to make connections happen
even<br>
>>>> when things are badly
misconfigured, lots of stuff will work to
some<br>
>>>> extent even when it is
badly configured. But DNS operations
people<br>
>>>> trade stories about
problems amongst themselves, after giving
up on<br>
>>>> sites because whois can't
help and the mname in the SOA record is<br>
>>>> broken. I find this
happens more often than you might expect.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> But yes, there are broken
domains on the Internet. I find it hard
to<br>
>>>> believe that would be
even slightly remarkable.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Best regards,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> A<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen
stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Volker A. Greimann<br>
>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH<br>
>>>> <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g">66386 St. Ingbert</a><br>
>>>> Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 -
9396 901</a><br>
>>>> Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 -
9396 851</a><br>
>>>> Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a>
/ <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a>
/ <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Folgen Sie uns bei
Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei
Facebook:<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Geschäftsführer:
Alexander Siffrin<br>
>>>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B
18835 - Saarbruecken<br>
>>>> Umsatzsteuer ID.:
DE211006534<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE
GROUP<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Der Inhalt dieser
Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den
angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form
der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder
Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger
ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht
nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir
Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder
telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
------------------------------<wbr>--------------<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Should you have any
further questions, please do not hesitate
to contact us.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Best regards,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Volker A. Greimann<br>
>>>> - legal department -<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH<br>
>>>> <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g">66386 St. Ingbert</a><br>
>>>> Tel.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 -
9396 901</a><br>
>>>> Fax.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 -
9396 851</a><br>
>>>> Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a>
/ <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a>
/ <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Follow us on Twitter or
join our fan community on Facebook and
stay updated:<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br>
>>>> Registration No.: HR B
18835 - Saarbruecken<br>
>>>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE
GROUP<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> This e-mail and its
attachments is intended only for the
person to whom it is addressed.
Furthermore it is not permitted to publish
any content of this email. You must not
use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this
e-mail. If an addressing or transmission
error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly
notify the author by replying to this
e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing
list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>>
______________________________<wbr>___<br>
>>>> Note to self: Pillage
BEFORE burning.<br>
>>>>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing
list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Kris Seeburn<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" target="_blank">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a><br>
>>> • <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/</a><br>
>>><br>
</div>
</div>
>>>
<KeepItOn_Social_animated.gif><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ______________________________<br>
<span>>>> _________________<br>
>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
</span>>> ______________________________<br>
<span class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898im m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898HOEnZb">>>
_________________<br>
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ______________________________<wbr>___<br>
> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.<br>
</span>
<div class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898h5">>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">______________________________<wbr>___<br>
Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
------------------------------<wbr>--------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352m_-847882815422705898moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="m_-6593500956563796352gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">______________________________<wbr>___<br>
Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
------------------------------<wbr>--------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-6593500956563796352moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________<br>Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
</div>