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    <p>You seem to think this is about me and not the dozens of security
      and anti-abuse professionals who have left this list... I am not
      sure why you think that.</p>
    <p>You also seem to think by saying I haven't come up with a better
      solution (whois privacy for free) or that I support that status
      quo (I do not), that it makes it true.</p>
    <p>But it's also when we talk about exactly those things Chuck
      chimes in to say we aren't there yet, which is why I've refrained.</p>
    <p>I will be contributing once we are talking about those issues as
      I have been contributing in ways outside your visibility up to
      this point.</p>
    <p>But that doesn't mitigate or change the conduct of members of
      this list who have engaged in a pattern of bullying, manipulation,
      and sexism to try to make their point. It has not gone unnoticed.</p>
    <p>j<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/07/2017 11:42 PM,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se">benny@nordreg.se</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:462D95BE-2212-4387-A1E8-1A97E4BB9D28@nordreg.se"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      Sorry to point it out but imo you have bullied yourself of the
      buss with not wanting to contribute to a new solution where you
      can exist but in same time we can make a better solution overall
      which not equal Status Quo.<br>
      <br>
      <div id="AppleMailSignature">Sent from my iPhone</div>
      <div><br>
        On 7 Dec 2017, at 22:17, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <p>The question has never been asked directly. So you want to
            get me on the bus, ask the question, as I have phrased it
            directly.</p>
          <p>But considering almost all the anti-abuse and security
            types have more or less been bullied off the bus, does it
            really matter anymore?</p>
          <p>j<br>
          </p>
          <br>
          <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/07/2017 03:01 PM, theo
            geurts wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote
            cite="mid:201f8e08-4826-4d88-e3ab-039c7e48d49f@xs4all.nl"
            type="cite">
            <p>And as confirmed by Hamilton. <br>
            </p>
            <p>And as confirmed by the Dutch DPA. <br>
            </p>
            <p>And as confirmed by WP29. <br>
            </p>
            <p>John, why do we keep having this conversation?<br>
              What do we need to do here to get you on the bus, so we do
              not get under the bus?<br>
              <br>
              Thanks, <br>
              <br>
              Theo <br>
            </p>
            <p><br>
            </p>
            <p><br>
            </p>
            <br>
            <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7-12-2017 21:41, Ayden
              Férdeline wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:dQ6egKbJcZJMBy8CFPiKqZRPyjloMqoTZUxNcTEjHcLmRZoqPshxyw_ZQB4lA0BAOuYlV92yNSczLfbGSQD1YA2PE_4AREwe4rmATrUyZo4=@ferdeline.com">
              <div>No, not necessarily. The criteria for obtaining
                valid, freely-given consent is demanding, and one cannot
                be asked to consent to processing that is otherwise
                unlawful. We were told in the first legal memo from WSGR
                that consent is not a silver bullet here.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div class="protonmail_signature_block">
                <div class="protonmail_signature_block-user">
                  <div>— Ayden  <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton
                  protonmail_signature_block-empty">
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite" class="protonmail_quote">
                <div>-------- Original Message --------<br>
                </div>
                <div>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working
                  Party to ICANN<br>
                </div>
                <div>Local Time: 7 December 2017 8:18 PM<br>
                </div>
                <div>UTC Time: 7 December 2017 20:18<br>
                </div>
                <div>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                    href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">
                    gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                </div>
                <div>To: Volker Greimann <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                    href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">
                    <vgreimann@key-systems.net></a><br>
                </div>
                <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                    href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>This interpretation is wrong. The latter clearly
                  says that consent in the current system is not clearly
                  given. If a domain holder had the free and informed
                  option to publish information in whois or not THIS
                  ISSUE IS SOLVED. <br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div>--<br>
                  </div>
                  <div>John Bambenek<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>On Dec 7, 2017, at 17:59, Volker Greimann <<a
                      href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
                    wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div>
                    <p>Hi Michele,<br>
                    </p>
                    <p>I read this a final and very clear warning from
                      the European DPAs to ICANN and its contracted
                      parties to stop messing about and start getting
                      ready in time for May 25. The references to
                      previous notices make it very clear that there
                      will be no  consideration given after that date.
                      While the letter contains nothing new to anyone
                      who has paid any attention, it is very clear in
                      its message: Public Whois is illegal in its
                      current shape and form, and there is no way to
                      make it legal without making it non-public.<br>
                    </p>
                    <p>Best,<br>
                    </p>
                    <p>Volker<br>
                    </p>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.12.2017 um 21:49
                      schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <pre wrap="">All

I'd highly recommend that you take the time to read the latest letter from the Article 29 Working Party to ICANN:

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/falque-pierrotin-to-chalaby-marby-06Dec17-en.pdf" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/falque-pierrotin-to-chalaby-marby-06Dec17-en.pdf</a>

(also attached)

For clarity the Article 29 WP represents the views of the DPAs of the EU member states. In many instances DPAs will address their concerns via this group rather than individually.

Regards

Michele


--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ceo.hosting/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://ceo.hosting/</a>
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
-------------------------------
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Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
Ireland  Company No.: 370845


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                      </div>
                      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a>
</pre>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

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</pre>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div>
                    <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</span><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><span><a
                          href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><span><a
                          href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span><br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </blockquote>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <br>
              <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
              <br>
              <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
          <br>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
          <span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</span><br>
          <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br>
          <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></div>
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