<div dir="ltr"><div><div>I'm not sure that registrars offering "ownership certification services" is a substitute. We know (or should know) that there have been cases where registrars are less than upright netizens. Unless the registrar is willing and able to offer indemnification to the registrant, what exactly is that certification worth? If the domain has been transferred to another registrar, what is the value of that ownership certification service?<br><br></div>Perhaps what we need is blockchain for domain registrations. I write this only half jokingly.<br><br></div>Michael Hammer<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Some registrars offer ownership certification services. That
would be an alternate third party verification, possibly even
better than someone looking at a whois record.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<div class="m_8575158878504720103moz-cite-prefix">Am 08.12.2017 um 17:33 schrieb allison
nixon:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Even from the point of view of the person
controlling the domain, the outside verification is extremely
valuable. Incidents of account takeover don't always end well
for the original account holder, and companies in general (not
just registrars, but telcos, social media companies, etc), are
NOT forthcoming about details about what the bad actor did while
signed into the victim's account. Sometimes this is due to bad
customer service, or bad internal recordkeeping. Many instances
of failure to return the account to the owner is actually
because historical account data is NOT saved by the company.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For the domain takeover incidents I have seen, the current
and historical WHOIS record is not just evidence, but it is
sometimes the only evidence available as to when the activity
started, what was affected, and what was attempted. Not only
that, but it serves as outside verifiable evidence that the
original registrant *really was* the original registrant.
Without that, we take the registrar's word for everything,
which may or may not be accurate or complete.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Andrew
Sullivan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:13:53AM -0500, allison
nixon wrote:<br>
> >>Whois can be an indicator of ownership but it
is not evidence.<br>
><br>
> No, it is evidence and it has been used as evidence
in the past. For<br>
> example one case years ago when some Army domains
were hijacked and the<br>
> WHOIS data was changed to the name of a hacker gang.
the historical whois<br>
> data, the date of the change, and other factors were
used as evidence for<br>
> the timeline of events. And the people constructing
that timeline were not<br>
> working for the Army and didn't own the registrar
account.<br>
<br>
</span>Well, ok, but that doesn't mean this is domain name
management,<br>
either. It might be some other use case (I think it
probably is --<br>
abuse prevention or something). The management case does
seem to me<br>
to be only those who are directly interested in the normal
operation<br>
of the domain from the point of view of controlling it, and
the only<br>
question is whether the interested parties are necessarily
somehow<br>
involved in the contractual relationship with the registry
and<br>
involved registrars. I think Volker is saying, "Yes," and
I'm saying,<br>
"Maybe not."<br>
<span class="m_8575158878504720103im m_8575158878504720103HOEnZb"><br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
A<br>
<br>
--<br>
Andrew Sullivan<br>
<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><br>
</span>
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