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<p>Historical data is not whois, it is a third party database.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 08.12.2017 um 17:13 schrieb allison
nixon:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACLR7wJjWsq=9_93S2OJw1pfT3EtYeD412G2-j3tdpQY6LXgqg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">>><span style="font-size:12.8px">Whois can be
an indicator of ownership but it is not evidence.</span>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">No, it is evidence and it
has been used as evidence in the past. For example one case
years ago when some Army domains were hijacked and the WHOIS
data was changed to the name of a hacker gang. the
historical whois data, the date of the change, and other
factors were used as evidence for the timeline of events.
And the people constructing that timeline were not working
for the Army and didn't own the registrar account.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Volker
Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">However,
as registrars are required to roll back unwanted
ownerchanges and transfers, such as those performed by a
hijacker, what use is the whois record if at the time of the
due diligence the whois does not reflect the legitimate
ownership, but rather only the details of the criminal
trying to flog what is not his?<br>
<br>
Whois can be an indicator of ownership but it is not
evidence.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Volker</font></span><span class="im HOEnZb"><br>
<br>
<br>
Am 08.12.2017 um 16:24 schrieb Sam Lanfranco:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
It might help to distinguish between two types of
"prospective buyer" here. One is an unsolicited
(possibly unwelcome) inquiry about purchase, and the
other is an offer to buy based on an owner's intent to
sell, or willingness to respond to a purchase query. In
the first case the owner, and the registrar, have no
obligation, and the interested party is left to its own
devices. As well, neither requires deep access to the
registration data.<br>
<br>
For someone taking over a domain name, one would expect
that they would do due diligence both in cooperation
with the seller, and throughout the nooks and crannies
of the Internet ecosystem. Deeper access to RDS/whois
type data would probably be a tiny part of that due
diligence, and access to more private data is an issue
between the buyer and the seller. There is scope for due
diligence and dialogue outside the registration data,
and domain names are not like products in a vending
machine. One does not look through the glass, put money
in the slot, and punch a button, with a URL falling out
of the machine. It is a negotiation with due diligence.
(my 2 cents here)<br>
<br>
Sam L.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/8/2017 9:54 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I would disagree. The only entities permitted to
perform domain management actions, are the registrant,
the registrar, and any agents deignated by them to
perform these roles. A prospective buyer does not
conduct domain management functions until he is
entered as registrant.<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 08.12.2017 um 15:49 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Thu, Dec 07, 2017 at 12:55:54PM -0500, Sam
Lanfranco wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Management (as a verb) is normally taken to mean
the active engagement of<br>
the owner, or owner's contractually related
parties, in the organization and<br>
coordination of the activities of a business in
order to achieve defined<br>
objectives. Using the word "management" here
suggests that we are limiting<br>
ourselves to what data elements are necessary to
collect for the use of the<br>
domain name holder, the registrar and the
registry. There are no other<br>
parties engaged in the "management" of the domain
name.<br>
<br>
Correct?<br>
</blockquote>
It seems to me that someone taking over a domain
name -- that is, a<br>
prospective registrant or domain name holder -- is
also another party,<br>
but perhaps that's just a variant on the above.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
A<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
-- <br>
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<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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