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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Greg/John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I will respectfully push back on your legal over simplification of the GDPR.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The exterritorial aspect of the GDPR set forth in Article 3 is NOT just limited to EU residents/citizens. As Michele has noted in the past, the GDPR requires BlackKnight as an Irish legal entity to protect all of its customers data (EU/Non-EU) in compliance with GDPR, as well as US entities that target and conduct business within the EU.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Now your points about the distinction between natural and legal persons is a fair one and one that has been noted in EU and Art 29 communications. Could you please share the basis of your proposition that 97% of all domain name registrations are registered by legal entities. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>As I have note previously the long term viability of the ICANN multi-stakeholder model is at risk as national governments continue to pass national laws that impact the operation of the Internet. However, the European Union is NOT alone in advancing Privacy Legislation, in fact data localization is perhaps the next biggest lurking threat to the domain name system. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Michael<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> gnso-rds-pdp-wg [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 12, 2018 1:22 PM<br><b>To:</b> Greg Aaron <gca@icginc.com><br><b>Cc:</b> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444'>I think Greg is right on. There's simply no justification to force a law that is only intended to apply to a) EU residents/citizens that are b) natural persons not using the domain name for commercial purposes, to the remaining...what? 97% - 99% of the world's registrant population? That would be a balanced way to implement all of this. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763'>John Horton<br>President and CEO, LegitScript</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><img width=96 height=36 style='width:1.0in;height:.375in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ"><o:p></o:p></p><div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#444444'>Follow</span></b><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>Legit</span></b><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'>Script</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank"><span style='color:#CC0000'>LinkedIn</span></a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" target="_blank"><span style='color:#6AA84F'>Facebook</span></a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" target="_blank"><span style='color:#674EA7'>Twitter</span></a> | <u><span style='color:#FF9900'><a href="http://blog.legitscript.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1155CC'>Blog</span></a></span></u> |<span style='color:#FF9900'> <a href="http://go.legitscript.com/Subscription-Management.html" target="_blank"><span style='color:#FF9900'>Newsletter</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#FF9900'><img border=0 width=46 height=96 style='width:.4791in;height:1.0in' id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"><img border=0 width=47 height=97 style='width:.493in;height:1.0069in' id="_x0000_i1027" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ"></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com" target="_blank">gca@icginc.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I don’t know if we arrive at the same place. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>GDPR is based on one principle. It states what is legal. It's explicit about what you _are allowed to do_; granted there’s some flexibility and room for interpretation. It’s like saying what’s inside a box.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>U.S. law is one based on different principles. AFAIK U.S. consumer protection law does not enumerate specifically what is lawful. Instead it tends to state what is illegal, what you are _not allowed to do_. It’s like saying what’s outside the box. The U.S. doesn’t have something like GDPR that spells out legal bases for collecting data, i.e. the enumerated allowable reasons. Instead the trade and consumer protection laws basically say: entities have the right to form contracts between themselves, they should live up to the contract, don’t surprise people, don’t do certain dishonest things. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Here's the problem: if one makes the GDPR principle the ICANN standard and you apply it to all registrations, then practices that are allowable in one place under the law (like the U.S.) would no longer be allowed there by ICANN policy. ICANN would be choosing one legal approach or regime for everyone in the world. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The alternative is to apply the GDRP only to those that it is designed to protect: registrants in the EU.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>For example, there’s nothing in U.S. law that prohibits a U.S. registrar from having a contract that says publication of full contact data in WHOIS is a condition of registering a domain name if you are a registrant in the U.S.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>See <a href="https://iapp.org/news/a/explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-american/" target="_blank">https://iapp.org/news/a/explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-american/</a> for more.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Silver, Bradley via gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 9, 2018 2:54 PM<br><b>To:</b> Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>; <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#1F497D'>It is true that the GDPR is prescriptive, although also rather open-ended (hence our current pickle). But regardless of the term we use, don’t we arrive at the same place: which is that if something that requires a legal basis is done without one, it will be unlawful? Using Kathy’s example, if data is processed without complying with minimization or purpose principles, will such processing not run afoul of the law, and hence be unlawful? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#1F497D'>There are important distinctions between the meaning of “legal basis” which implies that a law requires something to be affirmatively present, versus “lawful”, which means that something is not prohibited by law. Ultimately though, isn’t “lawfulness”, the same end point, regardless? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> gnso-rds-pdp-wg [</span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 09, 2018 11:27 AM<br><b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p>I do not see how. Kathy's analysis seems sound. The flexibility within the GDPR still only allows processing in very specific cicumstances, all of which are listed in the GDPR.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Am 09.02.2018 um 16:45 schrieb Victoria Sheckler:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Kathy’s analysis breaks down on a practical level when one looks at the GDPR and what it says about when data can be processed. The GDPR allows for flexibility for what can be processed and when, and kathy’s analysis overlooks that point.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathy Kleiman<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 8, 2018 7:07 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Tx for the invitation to join, Chuck, and following up on the discussion of Sam and Tapani, let me add that criteria for processing must be clearer than something broadly within ICANN's mission statement and something permissible somewhere. The requirements under law are express and concrete. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Specifically, GDPR Article 5(1)(b and c) states:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b>Personal data shall be: <br>2. "collected for <u>specified, explicit and legitimate purposes </u>and not further processed in a manner that is incompatible with those purposes"</b> (the "purpose limitation") AND <b><br>3. "adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed"</b> (the "data minimisation" requirement). [underline added]<b><br></b><br>Thus, our first criteria of "consistent with ICANN's mission," is only the first step and we need to go further than even the 3 criteria we are discussing..<br><br>Second, lawful and legal enter us into a debate over words and I have to agree with Sam and Tapani's analysis and let me add some of my own. <br><br>"Legal" is the term we use for actions expressly allowed under law. How we process personal data under the GDRP falls into this category -- of processing expressly allowed under law. Whereas the term lawful is used for a much broader category of actions which are generally permissible and allowable.<br><br>The term "legal" is much more consistent with our criteria statement because the processing of personal data by ICANN must clearly have a <i>valid legal basis</i> as expressly defined by data protection laws. <br><br>Best regards, <br>Kathy <br><br>On 2/7/2018 10:53 AM, Sam Lanfranco wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p>Thanks Tapani,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I will extract from your longer message. <br>I deliberately kept my brief and less technical.<br>I think we are in agreement here and I support your position.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#660000'>On 2/7/2018 1:07 AM, Tapani Tarvainen wrote:<br><br>The key distinction, as I understand it, is that "lawful" would be<br> defined by the negative, everything that some law does not prohibit, </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#660000'>where as "legal basis" is defined by the positive, only things whose <br>justification can be explicitly derived from law. <br><br> <......><br><br>So I would prefer "legal basis" specifically in this sense: that any processing<br> would have to be explicitly based on one of the criteria, or bases, as listed <br>in GDPR Article 6, or similar explicit justification in other data protection legislation. <br><br></span><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwMDaQ&c=tq9bLrSQ8zIr87VusnUS92RmR2KtbW6AiQIx78dtRmA&r=TAA3GKe6tpWdv3RbCks6TRrjaTx9d0J3KzemA65KYpA&m=fOG1O9n2_DhDKrVj0wrojDKlYIsDeLHzwtDlEi-f9Ng&s=GditP_BvWvjE7xFIYot7e5akySiL4RPKaCgA_X_fyTE&e=" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwMDaQ&c=tq9bLrSQ8zIr87VusnUS92RmR2KtbW6AiQIx78dtRmA&r=TAA3GKe6tpWdv3RbCks6TRrjaTx9d0J3KzemA65KYpA&m=fOG1O9n2_DhDKrVj0wrojDKlYIsDeLHzwtDlEi-f9Ng&s=GditP_BvWvjE7xFIYot7e5akySiL4RPKaCgA_X_fyTE&e=" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:red'><br><b><i><br>Reminder: Any email that requests your login credentials or that asks you to click on a link could be a phishing attack. 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