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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Volker,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The WG could recommend policies that are ‘universally applicable to all registrations’ but I seriously doubt that will happen in today’s world. That would be much simpler than policies that vary by region and users, but is it realistic?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Chuck<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> gnso-rds-pdp-wg [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 12, 2018 2:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Michael Palage <michael@palage.com><br><b>Cc:</b> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Michael is right. ICANN iOS based on the thought of “One World; one Internet”. This also means that the policies it creates should be universally applicable to all registrations, if possible. IF we start creating policy that diverges, that would only lead to further fragmentation and undermine the founding ideal of ICANN itself. Our aim should be to create one policy that can be applied to all or most registrations and that can be implemented by all registrars alike. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>While we will likely have a certain amount of fragmentation following May 25 as each contracted party applies its own solution, it should be our goal to overcome this and present a new unified policy that works for all contracted parties. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Volker<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 12. Feb 2018, at 20:27, Michael Palage <<a href="mailto:michael@palage.com">michael@palage.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Greg/John,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I will respectfully push back on your legal over simplification of the GDPR.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The exterritorial aspect of the GDPR set forth in Article 3 is NOT just limited to EU residents/citizens. As Michele has noted in the past, the GDPR requires BlackKnight as an Irish legal entity to protect all of its customers data (EU/Non-EU) in compliance with GDPR, as well as US entities that target and conduct business within the EU.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Now your points about the distinction between natural and legal persons is a fair one and one that has been noted in EU and Art 29 communications. Could you please share the basis of your proposition that 97% of all domain name registrations are registered by legal entities.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>As I have note previously the long term viability of the ICANN multi-stakeholder model is at risk as national governments continue to pass national laws that impact the operation of the Internet. However, the European Union is NOT alone in advancing Privacy Legislation, in fact data localization is perhaps the next biggest lurking threat to the domain name system. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Michael<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>John Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Monday, February 12, 2018 1:22 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com">gca@icginc.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444'>I think Greg is right on. There's simply no justification to force a law that is only intended to apply to a) EU residents/citizens that are b) natural persons not using the domain name for commercial purposes, to the remaining...what? 97% - 99% of the world's registrant population? That would be a balanced way to implement all of this. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763'>John Horton<br>President and CEO, LegitScript</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=96 height=36 style='width:1.0in;height:.375in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ"><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#444444'>Follow</span></b><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Legit<span style='color:#0B5394'>Script</span></span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank"><span style='color:#CC0000'>LinkedIn</span></a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" target="_blank"><span style='color:#6AA84F'>Facebook</span></a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" target="_blank"><span style='color:#674EA7'>Twitter</span></a> | <u><span style='color:#FF9900'><a href="http://blog.legitscript.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1155CC'>Blog</span></a></span></u> |<span style='color:#FF9900'> <a href="http://go.legitscript.com/Subscription-Management.html" target="_blank"><span style='color:#FF9900'>Newsletter</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#FF9900'><img border=0 width=46 height=96 style='width:.4791in;height:1.0in' id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"><img border=0 width=47 height=97 style='width:.4895in;height:1.0104in' id="_x0000_i1027" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ"></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>gca@icginc.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I don’t know if we arrive at the same place. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>GDPR is based on one principle. It states what is legal. It's explicit about what you _are allowed to do_; granted there’s some flexibility and room for interpretation. It’s like saying what’s inside a box.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>U.S. law is one based on different principles. AFAIK U.S. consumer protection law does not enumerate specifically what is lawful. Instead it tends to state what is illegal, what you are _not allowed to do_. It’s like saying what’s outside the box. The U.S. doesn’t have something like GDPR that spells out legal bases for collecting data, i.e. the enumerated allowable reasons. Instead the trade and consumer protection laws basically say: entities have the right to form contracts between themselves, they should live up to the contract, don’t surprise people, don’t do certain dishonest things. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Here's the problem: if one makes the GDPR principle the ICANN standard and you apply it to all registrations, then practices that are allowable in one place under the law (like the U.S.) would no longer be allowed there by ICANN policy. ICANN would be choosing one legal approach or regime for everyone in the world. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The alternative is to apply the GDRP only to those that it is designed to protect: registrants in the EU.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>For example, there’s nothing in U.S. law that prohibits a U.S. registrar from having a contract that says publication of full contact data in WHOIS is a condition of registering a domain name if you are a registrant in the U.S.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>See<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://iapp.org/news/a/explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-american/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://iapp.org/news/a/explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-american/</span></a> for more.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Silver, Bradley via gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, February 9, 2018 2:54 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></a>>;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>It is true that the GDPR is prescriptive, although also rather open-ended (hence our current pickle). But regardless of the term we use, don’t we arrive at the same place: which is that if something that requires a legal basis is done without one, it will be unlawful? Using Kathy’s example, if data is processed without complying with minimization or purpose principles, will such processing not run afoul of the law, and hence be unlawful? <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>There are important distinctions between the meaning of “legal basis” which implies that a law requires something to be affirmatively present, versus “lawful”, which means that something is not prohibited by law. Ultimately though, isn’t “lawfulness”, the same end point, regardless? <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>gnso-rds-pdp-wg [</span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple'>mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Volker Greimann<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, February 09, 2018 11:27 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple'>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I do not see how. Kathy's analysis seems sound. The flexibility within the GDPR still only allows processing in very specific cicumstances, all of which are listed in the GDPR.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Am 09.02.2018 um 16:45 schrieb Victoria Sheckler:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Kathy’s analysis breaks down on a practical level when one looks at the GDPR and what it says about when data can be processed. The GDPR allows for flexibility for what can be processed and when, and kathy’s analysis overlooks that point.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Kathy Kleiman<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Thursday, February 8, 2018 7:07 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Tx for the invitation to join, Chuck, and following up on the discussion of Sam and Tapani, let me add that criteria for processing must be clearer than something broadly within ICANN's mission statement and something permissible somewhere. The requirements under law are express and concrete.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Specifically, GDPR Article 5(1)(b and c) states:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b>Personal data shall be:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>2. "collected for<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><u>specified, explicit and legitimate purposes<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></u>and not further processed in a manner that is incompatible with those purposes"</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>(the "purpose limitation") AND<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b><br>3. "adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed"</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>(the "data minimisation" requirement). [underline added]<b><br></b><br>Thus, our first criteria of "consistent with ICANN's mission," is only the first step and we need to go further than even the 3 criteria we are discussing..<br><br>Second, lawful and legal enter us into a debate over words and I have to agree with Sam and Tapani's analysis and let me add some of my own.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>"Legal" is the term we use for actions expressly allowed under law. How we process personal data under the GDRP falls into this category -- of processing expressly allowed under law. Whereas the term lawful is used for a much broader category of actions which are generally permissible and allowable.<br><br>The term "legal" is much more consistent with our criteria statement because the processing of personal data by ICANN must clearly have a<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>valid legal basis</i><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>as expressly defined by data protection laws.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>Best regards,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>Kathy<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>On 2/7/2018 10:53 AM, Sam Lanfranco wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Thanks Tapani,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I will extract from your longer message.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>I deliberately kept my brief and less technical.<br>I think we are in agreement here and I support your position.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#660000'>On 2/7/2018 1:07 AM, Tapani Tarvainen wrote:<br><br>The key distinction, as I understand it, is that "lawful" would be<br> defined by the negative, everything that some law does not prohibit,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#660000'>where as "legal basis" is defined by the positive, only things whose<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>justification can be explicitly derived from law.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br> <......><br><br>So I would prefer "legal basis" specifically in this sense: that any processing<br> would have to be explicitly based on one of the criteria, or bases, as listed<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>in GDPR Article 6, or similar explicit justification in other data protection legislation.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br></span><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwMDaQ&c=tq9bLrSQ8zIr87VusnUS92RmR2KtbW6AiQIx78dtRmA&r=TAA3GKe6tpWdv3RbCks6TRrjaTx9d0J3KzemA65KYpA&m=fOG1O9n2_DhDKrVj0wrojDKlYIsDeLHzwtDlEi-f9Ng&s=GditP_BvWvjE7xFIYot7e5akySiL4RPKaCgA_X_fyTE&e=" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwMDaQ&c=tq9bLrSQ8zIr87VusnUS92RmR2KtbW6AiQIx78dtRmA&r=TAA3GKe6tpWdv3RbCks6TRrjaTx9d0J3KzemA65KYpA&m=fOG1O9n2_DhDKrVj0wrojDKlYIsDeLHzwtDlEi-f9Ng&s=GditP_BvWvjE7xFIYot7e5akySiL4RPKaCgA_X_fyTE&e=" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:red'><br><b><i><br>Reminder: Any email that requests your login credentials or that asks you to click on a link could be a phishing attack. 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