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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Holly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
Exactly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">People seem to have bad memories or a myopic view.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">While GDPR is the very visible elephant stomping around the room at the moment, the underlying principles within GDPR are neither new or unique to the EU. The data protection / privacy principles in the GDRP and its predecessors
have been adopted by many other countries. While the US might not have formally enacted legislation in this space they’re the exception not the rule.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">So it’s *<b>not</b>* simply the EU vs the world, as some people seem to enjoy positing. It’s more a case of the US (and a couple of other countries) versus the rest of the world that has adapted privacy regimes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Either way, as others have noted, as an Irish company operating under Irish and EU law Blacknight doesn’t get to choose which regime we follow. Everything we do has to comply with Irish law and by extension EU law.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Michele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Hosting, Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">https://www.blacknight.com/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">http://blacknight.blog/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Personal blog: https://michele.blog/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche@internode.on.net><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday 12 February 2018 at 20:15<br>
<b>To: </b>Michael Palage <michael@palage.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailOriginalBody">Folks <o:p></o:p></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Could we please stop pretending that this is only about the GDPR and the EU. Yes, the GDPR is perhaps the most stringent on data protection. But increasingly, many other jurisdictions are enacting
similar legislation. Just north of the US, Canada has very similar rules about data protection, or on the other side of the world, so does Australia (and many other countries in the Asia Pacific region as well). So increasingly, the US will be the odd man
out on this issue. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">And there are also concerns about legal vs natural persons. In some cases (not just a few), the registrant may be a legal entity - a small business, where the details for contact are those of
the registrant - personal information. So the distinction, in such cases, could lead to the publication of personal information of the legal entity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Finally, please draw a distinction between collection for legitimate purposes, and making that information public. There is no question that, particularly in many cases, registries/registrars
need to contact registrants. Cases of misuse/abuse of the name are also situations where we all expect contact information will be accessible. But that is a long way from having all RDS data freely available to all, as is now the case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Holly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">On 13 Feb 2018, at 6:27 am, Michael Palage <</span><a href="mailto:michael@palage.com"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">michael@palage.com</span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">Greg/John,<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">I will respectfully push back on your legal over simplification of the GDPR.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">The exterritorial aspect of the GDPR set forth in Article 3 is NOT just limited to EU residents/citizens. As Michele has noted in the past, the GDPR requires BlackKnight as
an Irish legal entity to protect all of its customers data (EU/Non-EU) in compliance with GDPR, as well as US entities that target and conduct business within the EU.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">Now your points about the distinction between natural and legal persons is a fair one and one that has been noted in EU and Art 29 communications. Could you please share the
basis of your proposition that 97% of all domain name registrations are registered by legal entities.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">As I have note previously the long term viability of the ICANN multi-stakeholder model is at risk as national governments continue to pass national laws that impact the operation
of the Internet. However, the European Union is NOT alone in advancing Privacy Legislation, in fact data localization is perhaps the next biggest lurking threat to the domain name system. <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">Michael<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[</span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, February 12, 2018 1:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Greg Aaron <</span></span><a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">gca@icginc.com</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444">I think Greg is right on. There's simply no justification to force a law that is only intended to apply to a) EU residents/citizens
that are b) natural persons not using the domain name for commercial purposes, to the remaining...what? 97% - 99% of the world's registrant population? That would be a balanced way to implement all of this. </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763">John Horton<br>
President and CEO, LegitScript</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><img border="0" width="96" height="36" style="width:1.0in;height:.375in" id="_x0000_i1029" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ" alt="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"> </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#444444">Follow</span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0B5394"> </span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">Legit<span style="color:#0B5394">Script</span></span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">: </span></span><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000">LinkedIn</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">
| </span></span><a href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#6AA84F">Facebook</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">
| </span></span><a href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#674EA7">Twitter</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">
| </span></span><a href="http://blog.legitscript.com/" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#1155CC">Blog</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"> |<span style="color:#FF9900"> </span></span></span><a href="http://go.legitscript.com/Subscription-Management.html" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#FF9900">Newsletter</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"> </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#FF9900"><img border="0" width="46" height="96" style="width:.4791in;height:1.0in" id="_x0000_i1028" src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png" alt="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"><img border="0" width="47" height="97" style="width:.4895in;height:1.0104in" id="_x0000_i1027" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ" alt="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ"></span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Greg Aaron <</span></span><a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">gca@icginc.com</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">I don’t know if we arrive at the same place. <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">GDPR is based on one principle. It states what is legal. It's explicit about what you _are allowed to do_; granted there’s some flexibility and room for interpretation.
It’s like saying what’s inside a box.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">U.S. law is one based on different principles. AFAIK U.S. consumer protection law does not enumerate specifically what is lawful. Instead it tends to state what is illegal,
what you are _not allowed to do_. It’s like saying what’s outside the box. The U.S. doesn’t have something like GDPR that spells out legal bases for collecting data, i.e. the enumerated allowable reasons. Instead the trade and consumer protection laws
basically say: entities have the right to form contracts between themselves, they should live up to the contract, don’t surprise people, don’t do certain dishonest things. <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">Here's the problem: if one makes the GDPR principle the ICANN standard and you apply it to all registrations, then practices that are allowable in one place under the law (like
the U.S.) would no longer be allowed there by ICANN policy. ICANN would be choosing one legal approach or regime for everyone in the world. <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">The alternative is to apply the GDRP only to those that it is designed to protect: registrants in the EU.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">For example, there’s nothing in U.S. law that prohibits a U.S. registrar from having a contract that says publication of full contact data in WHOIS is a condition of registering
a domain name if you are a registrant in the U.S.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">See<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><a href="https://iapp.org/news/a/explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-american/" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">https://iapp.org/news/a/explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-american/</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">
for more.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[</span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Silver, Bradley via gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, February 9, 2018 2:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Volker Greimann <</span></span><a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">>;<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">It is true that the GDPR is prescriptive, although also rather open-ended (hence our current pickle). But regardless of the term we use, don’t we arrive
at the same place: which is that if something that requires a legal basis is done without one, it will be unlawful? Using Kathy’s example, if data is processed without complying with minimization or purpose principles, will such processing not run afoul
of the law, and hence be unlawful? </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">There are important distinctions between the meaning of “legal basis” which implies that a law requires something to be affirmatively present, versus
“lawful”, which means that something is not prohibited by law. Ultimately though, isn’t “lawfulness”, the same end point, regardless? </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Volker Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, February 09, 2018 11:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I do not see how. Kathy's analysis seems sound. The flexibility within the GDPR still only allows processing in very specific cicumstances,
all of which are listed in the GDPR.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">Am 09.02.2018 um 16:45 schrieb Victoria Sheckler:<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">Kathy’s analysis breaks down on a practical level when one looks at the GDPR and what it says about when data can be processed. The GDPR allows for flexibility for what can
be processed and when, and kathy’s analysis overlooks that point.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[</span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Kathy Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, February 8, 2018 7:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">Tx for the invitation to join, Chuck, and following up on the discussion of Sam and Tapani, let me add that criteria for processing must be clearer than something broadly within
ICANN's mission statement and something permissible somewhere. The requirements under law are express and concrete.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Specifically, GDPR Article 5(1)(b and c) states:<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><b><span lang="EN-US">Personal data shall be:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
2. "collected for<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><u>specified, explicit and legitimate purposes<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></u>and not further processed in a manner that is incompatible with those purposes"</span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">(the
"purpose limitation") AND<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b><br>
3. "adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed"</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>(the "data minimisation" requirement). [underline added]<b><br>
</b><br>
Thus, our first criteria of "consistent with ICANN's mission," is only the first step and we need to go further than even the 3 criteria we are discussing..<br>
<br>
Second, lawful and legal enter us into a debate over words and I have to agree with Sam and Tapani's analysis and let me add some of my own.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
"Legal" is the term we use for actions expressly allowed under law. How we process personal data under the GDRP falls into this category -- of processing expressly allowed under law. Whereas the term lawful is used for a much broader category of actions which
are generally permissible and allowable.<br>
<br>
The term "legal" is much more consistent with our criteria statement because the processing of personal data by ICANN must clearly have a<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>valid legal basis</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>as expressly
defined by data protection laws.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
Best regards,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Kathy<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
On 2/7/2018 10:53 AM, Sam Lanfranco wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Thanks Tapani,<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">I will extract from your longer message.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
I deliberately kept my brief and less technical.<br>
I think we are in agreement here and I support your position.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#660000">On 2/7/2018 1:07 AM, Tapani Tarvainen wrote:<br>
<br>
The key distinction, as I understand it, is that "lawful" would be<br>
defined by the negative, everything that some law does not prohibit,</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#660000">where as "legal basis" is defined by the positive, only things whose<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
justification can be explicitly derived from law.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
<......><br>
<br>
So I would prefer "legal basis" specifically in this sense: that any processing<br>
would have to be explicitly based on one of the criteria, or bases, as listed<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
in GDPR Article 6, or similar explicit justification in other data protection legislation.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<pre><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwMDaQ&c=tq9bLrSQ8zIr87VusnUS92RmR2KtbW6AiQIx78dtRmA&r=TAA3GKe6tpWdv3RbCks6TRrjaTx9d0J3KzemA65KYpA&m=fOG1O9n2_DhDKrVj0wrojDKlYIsDeLHzwtDlEi-f9Ng&s=GditP_BvWvjE7xFIYot7e5akySiL4RPKaCgA_X_fyTE&e=" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<pre><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwMDaQ&c=tq9bLrSQ8zIr87VusnUS92RmR2KtbW6AiQIx78dtRmA&r=TAA3GKe6tpWdv3RbCks6TRrjaTx9d0J3KzemA65KYpA&m=fOG1O9n2_DhDKrVj0wrojDKlYIsDeLHzwtDlEi-f9Ng&s=GditP_BvWvjE7xFIYot7e5akySiL4RPKaCgA_X_fyTE&e=" target="_blank"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><img border="0" width="1516" height="1" style="width:15.7916in;height:.0104in" id="Horizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_4" src="cid:image002.png@01D3A4CF.1690CBD0"></span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:red"><br>
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</span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
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