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<p><span class="st">"That it is better <em>100</em> guilty Persons
should escape <em>than</em> that <em>one innocent</em> Person
should suffer"</span></p>
<p><span class="st">- Benjamin Franklin<br>
</span></p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 13.02.2018 um 17:35 schrieb Chen,
Tim:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+dThxcwsLfvWUHsFH3J3AArWQvSB8hKtFJd51yhYPaPBqKC4Q@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">and neither will a lot of bad actors, online
criminals and miscreants. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:28 AM, Volker
Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>But the only ones facing the fines or imprisonment of
officers. Will you face government fines or prison if
you can no longer look at whois? No? Thought so!<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-4572336867085428836moz-cite-prefix">Am
13.02.2018 um 17:23 schrieb Dotzero:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Volcker,<br>
<br>
</div>
Registrars are not the only constituency with a
stake in this. <br>
<br>
</div>
Michael Hammer<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:13
AM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi Mike,</p>
<p>no, sensible because a great number of
registrars will be forced to deal with this
anyway, because this will affect a great many
of registrations and therefore it makes sense
to take this as a basis. Of course we will
then need to see if there need to be tweaks to
accomodate for other jurisdictions, but as
more as more countries are adopting similar
regimes....</p>
<p>Sure it will be more restrictive than open
access and some people may have a harder time
than today getting at certain information, but
with tiered access access would still be
possible for those with overriding legitimate
interests. That is the model the EU commission
hinted at. Not the only model, but a working
one.<span class="m_-4572336867085428836HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></p>
<span class="m_-4572336867085428836HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888">
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="m_-4572336867085428836h5"> <br>
<div
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775moz-cite-prefix">Am
13.02.2018 um 17:04 schrieb Dotzero:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Volker, you assert that "it would
be sensible to take GDPR as a basis
and start from there". Perhaps
sensible from your perspective and
easier from your perspective but ICANN
is an international organization -
primarily dealing with
technical/administrative issues - and
it MUST take an approach that, as best
it can, accommodates the laws and
practices of various jurisdictions
around the world. Your proposed
approach, quite simply does not do
that.<br>
<br>
</div>
Michael Hammer<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 13,
2018 at 10:54 AM, Volker Greimann <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000"
bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>I think that it would be
sensible to take the GDPR as a
basis and start from there.
Obviously, where it conflicts
with other applicable laws, we
should make sure to accomodate
those as well, but as the EU
Commission and others have
pointed out is that compliance
with GDPR does not preclude
providing certain access levels
to certain parties. What those
levels would be and who those
parties could be should be the
main focus of our work. <br>
</p>
<div>
<div
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775h5">
<br>
<div
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952moz-cite-prefix">Am
13.02.2018 um 15:41 schrieb
Chuck:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext">Volker,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext">Are you saying that you think that RDS policies
should be designed to
comply with European
regulations and then
applied to all other
jurisdictions in the
world?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext">Chuck</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext">
Volker Greimann [<a
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.<wbr>net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Tuesday, February
13, 2018 5:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chuck <a
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><consult@cgomes.com></a>;
'Michael Palage' <a
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:michael@palage.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><michael@palage.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Legal basis vs.
lawful</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>I am afraid that if we
create different
policies for different
regions, we will break
the model, encourage
forum shopping and
encourage firewalling of
entire geographic
sections of the net. I
hope that is not what we
are doing here. </p>
<p>GDPR will cause some
breakage of this and I
see it as our mission to
fix this breakage of the
standard by proposing a
unified model once
again. </p>
<p>Ultimately, if this
solution does what the
EU has been asking for,
e.g. protect legitimate
use cases of
registration data as
well as the rights of
the data subjects, there
is no reason why it
should not be
universally applicable.
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am
13.02.2018 um 00:04
schrieb Chuck:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Volker,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The
WG could recommend
policies that are
‘universally
applicable to all
registrations’ but I
seriously doubt that
will happen in today’s
world. That would be
much simpler than
policies that vary by
region and users, but
is it realistic?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chuck</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce<wbr>s@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker
Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Monday, February
12, 2018 2:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Michael
Palage <a
href="mailto:michael@palage.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><michael@palage.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Legal basis vs.
lawful</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael
is right. ICANN iOS
based on the thought
of “One World; one
Internet”. This also
means that the
policies it creates
should be universally
applicable to all
registrations, if
possible. IF we start
creating policy that
diverges, that would
only lead to further
fragmentation and
undermine the founding
ideal of ICANN itself.
Our aim should be to
create one policy that
can be applied to all
or most registrations
and that can be
implemented by all
registrars alike. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">While
we will likely have
a certain amount of
fragmentation
following May 25 as
each contracted
party applies its
own solution, it
should be our goal
to overcome this and
present a new
unified policy that
works for all
contracted parties. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Volker</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
12. Feb 2018,
at 20:27,
Michael Palage
<<a
href="mailto:michael@palage.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">michael@palage.com</a>> wrote:</p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Greg/John,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">I
will
respectfully
push back on
your legal
over
simplification
of the GDPR.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">The
exterritorial
aspect of the
GDPR set forth
in Article 3
is NOT just
limited to EU
residents/citizens. As Michele has noted in the past, the GDPR requires
BlackKnight as
an Irish legal
entity to
protect all of
its customers
data
(EU/Non-EU) in
compliance
with GDPR, as
well as US
entities that
target and
conduct
business
within the EU.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Now
your points
about the
distinction
between
natural and
legal persons
is a fair one
and one that
has been noted
in EU and Art
29
communications.
Could you
please share
the basis of
your
proposition
that 97% of
all domain
name
registrations
are registered
by legal
entities.<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">As
I have note
previously the
long term
viability of
the ICANN
multi-stakeholder
model is at
risk as
national
governments
continue to
pass national
laws that
impact the
operation of
the Internet.
However, the
European Union
is NOT alone
in advancing
Privacy
Legislation,
in fact data
localization
is perhaps the
next biggest
lurking threat
to the domain
name system. <span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Best
regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Michael</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce<wbr>s@icann.org</a>]<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John
Horton via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday,
February 12,
2018 1:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Greg
Aaron <<a
href="mailto:gca@icginc.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gca@icginc.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444">I think
Greg is right
on. There's
simply no
justification
to force a law
that is only
intended to
apply to a) EU
residents/citizens that are b) natural persons not using the domain name
for commercial
purposes, to
the
remaining...what?
97% - 99% of
the world's
registrant
population?
That would be
a balanced way
to implement
all of this. </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br
clear="all">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763">John
Horton<br>
President and
CEO,
LegitScript</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><img
style="width:1.0in;height:.375in"
id="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952_x0000_i1025"
src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ"
moz-do-not-send="true" height="36" width="96" border="0"></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#444444">Follow</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"> </span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Legit</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Script</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">: <a
href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#cc0000">LinkedIn</span></a> | <a
href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#6aa84f">Facebook</span></a>
| <a
href="https://twitter.com/legitscript"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#674ea7">Twitter</span></a>
| </span><u><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#ff9900"><a
href="http://blog.legitscript.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#1155cc">Blog</span></a></span></u><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> |</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#ff9900"> <a
href="http://go.legitscript.com/Subscription-Management.html"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#ff9900">Newsletter</span></a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#ff9900"><img
style="width:.4791in;height:1.0in"
id="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952_x0000_i1026"
src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"
moz-do-not-send="true" height="96" width="46" border="0"><img
style="width:.4895in;height:1.0104in"
id="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952_x0000_i1027"
src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ"
moz-do-not-send="true" height="97" width="47" border="0"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Mon, Feb 12,
2018 at 9:57
AM, Greg Aaron
<<a
href="mailto:gca@icginc.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">gca@icginc.com</span></a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">I
don’t know if
we arrive at
the same
place. <span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">GDPR
is based on
one
principle. It
states what is
legal. It's
explicit about
what you _are
allowed to
do_; granted
there’s some
flexibility
and room for
interpretation.
It’s like
saying what’s
inside a box.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">U.S.
law is one
based on
different
principles.
AFAIK U.S.
consumer
protection law
does not
enumerate
specifically
what is
lawful.
Instead it
tends to state
what is
illegal, what
you are _not
allowed to
do_. It’s
like saying
what’s outside
the box. The
U.S. doesn’t
have something
like GDPR that
spells out
legal bases
for collecting
data, i.e. the
enumerated
allowable
reasons.
Instead the
trade and
consumer
protection
laws basically
say: entities
have the right
to form
contracts
between
themselves,
they should
live up to the
contract,
don’t surprise
people, don’t
do certain
dishonest
things. <span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Here's
the problem:
if one makes
the GDPR
principle the
ICANN standard
and you apply
it to all
registrations,
then practices
that are
allowable in
one place
under the law
(like the
U.S.) would no
longer be
allowed there
by ICANN
policy.
ICANN would
be choosing
one legal
approach or
regime for
everyone in
the world. <span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">The
alternative is
to apply the
GDRP only to
those that it
is designed to
protect:
registrants
in the EU.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">For
example,
there’s
nothing in
U.S. law that
prohibits a
U.S. registrar
from having a
contract that
says
publication of
full contact
data in WHOIS
is a
condition of
registering a
domain name if
you are a
registrant in
the U.S.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">See<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://iapp.org/news/a/explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-american/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">https://iapp.org/news/a/ex<wbr>plaining-the-gdpr-to-an-americ<wbr>an/</span></a>
for more.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce<wbr>s@icann.org</span></a>]<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Silver,
Bradley via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday,
February 9,
2018 2:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Volker
Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></a>>;<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">g<wbr>nso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d">It is true that the GDPR is prescriptive, although
also rather
open-ended
(hence our
current
pickle). But
regardless of
the term we
use, don’t we
arrive at the
same place:
which is that
if something
that requires
a legal basis
is done
without one,
it will be
unlawful?
Using Kathy’s
example, if
data is
processed
without
complying with
minimization
or purpose
principles,
will such
processing not
run afoul of
the law, and
hence be
unlawful? <span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d">There are important distinctions between the
meaning of
“legal basis”
which implies
that a law
requires
something to
be
affirmatively
present,
versus
“lawful”,
which means
that something
is not
prohibited by
law.
Ultimately
though, isn’t
“lawfulness”,
the same end
point,
regardless? <span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[</span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce<wbr>s@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">]<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Volker
Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday,
February 09,
2018 11:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I
do not see
how. Kathy's
analysis seems
sound. The
flexibility
within the
GDPR still
only allows
processing in
very specific
cicumstances,
all of which
are listed in
the GDPR.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Am
09.02.2018 um
16:45 schrieb
Victoria
Sheckler:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Kathy’s
analysis
breaks down on
a practical
level when one
looks at the
GDPR and what
it says about
when data can
be processed.
The GDPR
allows for
flexibility
for what can
be processed
and when, and
kathy’s
analysis
overlooks that
point.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce<wbr>s@icann.org</span></a>]<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Kathy
Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday,
February 8,
2018 7:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Tx
for the
invitation to
join, Chuck,
and following
up on the
discussion of
Sam and
Tapani, let me
add that
criteria for
processing
must be
clearer than
something
broadly within
ICANN's
mission
statement and
something
permissible
somewhere. The
requirements
under law are
express and
concrete.<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Specifically,
GDPR Article
5(1)(b and c)
states:</span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b>Personal data shall be:<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
2.
"collected for<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><u>specified,
explicit and
legitimate
purposes<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></u>and
not further
processed in a
manner that is
incompatible
with those
purposes"</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>(the
"purpose
limitation")
AND<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><b><br>
3.
"adequate,
relevant and
limited to
what is
necessary in
relation to
the purposes
for which they
are processed"</b><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>(the
"data
minimisation"
requirement).
[underline
added]<b><br>
</b><br>
Thus, our
first criteria
of "consistent
with ICANN's
mission," is
only the first
step and we
need to go
further than
even the 3
criteria we
are
discussing..<br>
<br>
Second, lawful
and legal
enter us into
a debate over
words and I
have to agree
with Sam and
Tapani's
analysis and
let me add
some of my
own.<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
"Legal" is the
term we use
for actions
expressly
allowed under
law. How we
process
personal data
under the GDRP
falls into
this category
-- of
processing
expressly
allowed under
law. Whereas
the term
lawful is used
for a much
broader
category of
actions which
are generally
permissible
and allowable.<br>
<br>
The term
"legal" is
much more
consistent
with our
criteria
statement
because the
processing of
personal data
by ICANN must
clearly have a<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><i>valid
legal basis</i><span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>as
expressly
defined by
data
protection
laws.<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
Best regards,<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Kathy<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
On 2/7/2018
10:53 AM, Sam
Lanfranco
wrote:</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Thanks
Tapani,</span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I will extract from your longer message.<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
I deliberately
kept my brief
and less
technical.<br>
I think we are
in agreement
here and I
support your
position.</p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#660000">On 2/7/2018 1:07 AM, Tapani Tarvainen wrote:<br>
<br>
The key
distinction,
as I
understand it,
is that
"lawful" would
be<br>
defined by
the negative,
everything
that some law
does not
prohibit,<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:#660000">where as "legal
basis" is
defined by the
positive, only
things whose<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
justification
can be
explicitly
derived from
law.<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
<......><br>
<br>
So I would
prefer "legal
basis"
specifically
in this sense:
that any
processing<br>
would have to
be explicitly
based on one
of the
criteria, or
bases, as
listed<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
in GDPR
Article 6, or
similar
explicit
justification
in other data
protection
legislation.<span
class="m_-4572336867085428836m_-5981583062905781775m_692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________</pre>
<pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</pre>
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<pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwMDaQ&c=tq9bLrSQ8zIr87VusnUS92RmR2KtbW6AiQIx78dtRmA&r=TAA3GKe6tpWdv3RbCks6TRrjaTx9d0J3KzemA65KYpA&m=fOG1O9n2_DhDKrVj0wrojDKlYIsDeLHzwtDlEi-f9Ng&s=GditP_BvWvjE7xFIYot7e5akySiL4RPKaCgA_X_fyTE&e=" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</span></a></pre>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span> </span></p>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________</pre>
<pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a></pre>
<pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwMDaQ&c=tq9bLrSQ8zIr87VusnUS92RmR2KtbW6AiQIx78dtRmA&r=TAA3GKe6tpWdv3RbCks6TRrjaTx9d0J3KzemA65KYpA&m=fOG1O9n2_DhDKrVj0wrojDKlYIsDeLHzwtDlEi-f9Ng&s=GditP_BvWvjE7xFIYot7e5akySiL4RPKaCgA_X_fyTE&e=" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</span></a></pre>
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______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<p
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">-- <br>
Bei weiteren
Fragen stehen
wir Ihnen
gerne zur
Verfügung.<br>
<br>
Mit
freundlichen
Grüßen,<br>
<br>
Volker A.
Greimann<br>
-
Rechtsabteilung
-<br>
<br>
Key-Systems
GmbH<br>
<a
href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><br>
66386 St.
Ingbert<br>
Tel.: <a
href="tel:+49%206894%209396901"
value="+4968949396901" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0)
6894 - 9396
901</a><br>
Fax.: <a
href="tel:+49%206894%209396851"
value="+4968949396851" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0)
6894 - 9396
851</a><br>
<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Email: vgreimann@key-systems.n<wbr>et</a><br>
<br>
Web: <a
href="http://www.key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a
href="http://www.RRPproxy.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www<wbr>.RRPproxy.net</a><br>
<a
href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a
href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www<wbr>.BrandShelter.com</a><br>
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Folgen Sie uns
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Sie unser Fan
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br>
<br>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br>
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br>
Umsatzsteuer
ID.:
DE211006534<br>
<br>
Member of the
KEYDRIVE GROUP<br>
<a
href="http://www.keydrive.lu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a><br>
<br>
Der Inhalt
dieser
Nachricht ist
vertraulich
und nur für
den
angegebenen
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Jede Form der
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Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist
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Sollte diese
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nicht für Sie
bestimmt sein,
so bitten wir
Sie, sich mit
uns per E-Mail
oder
telefonisch in
Verbindung
zu setzen.<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>--------------<br>
<br>
Should you
have any
further
questions,
please do not
hesitate to
contact us.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Volker A.
Greimann<br>
- legal
department -<br>
<br>
Key-Systems
GmbH<br>
<a
href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><br>
66386 St.
Ingbert<br>
Tel.: <a
href="tel:+49%206894%209396901"
value="+4968949396901" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0)
6894 - 9396
901</a><br>
Fax.: <a
href="tel:+49%206894%209396851"
value="+4968949396851" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0)
6894 - 9396
851</a><br>
Email: <a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.n<wbr>et</a><br>
<br>
Web: <a
href="http://www.key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a
href="http://www.RRPproxy.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www<wbr>.RRPproxy.net</a><br>
<a
href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a
href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www<wbr>.BrandShelter.com</a><br>
<br>
Follow us on
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join our fan
community on
Facebook and
stay updated:<br>
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<a
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br>
<br>
CEO: Alexander
Siffrin<br>
Registration
No.: HR B
18835 -
Saarbruecken<br>
V.A.T. ID.:
DE211006534<br>
<br>
Member of the
KEYDRIVE GROUP<br>
<a
href="http://www.keydrive.lu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a><br>
<br>
This e-mail
and its
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Furthermore it
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You must not
use, disclose,
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addressing
or transmission
error has
misdirected
this e-mail,
kindly notify
the author by
replying
to this e-mail
or contacting
us by
telephone.</span></p>
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