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<p>That brings us back to the question whether we would want a
unified DNS system or a fractured one. I personally think 14% of
the worlds registrations are quite a significant number, but even
if you do not, does this mean you would prefer fragmentation of
policies and rules?<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 13.02.2018 um 19:18 schrieb John
Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADW+euueVq9aGVHOXmUy9Z0D7rFvWM5i8t5G8_DOd=CGz_0eYw@mail.gmail.com">
<div>
<div dir="auto">+1 (to Greg)</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:09 AM Greg Aaron <<a
href="mailto:gca@icginc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">gca@icginc.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">What
are the jurisdictions where gTLD registrants are
located? The stats indicate that
</span>a distinct minority of gTLD registrations and
registrants may qualify for GDPR protection.
According to ICANN’s metrics, 14% of registrants are
in the EU. The top jurisdictions are:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">USA 41.0%</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">EU countries 14.0%</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">China 9.4%</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Canada 4.2%</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Japan 3.5%</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Panama 3.3%</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">[other 24.6%]</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">These stats don’t tell us exactly
how many registrations might involve GDPR (affecting
that are the jurisdictions of the various parties
involved in any given registartion, the fact that
legal person in the EU are not due the same protection
as natural persons, etc.). Still, that 14% is
interesting. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The European Commission itself
recently told ICANN that solutions can and should be
balanced, to “preserve the proper use of WHOIS while
ensuring full compliance with the (current and future)
EU data protection rules”, and that GDPR only applies
to the personal data of natural persons in the EU. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, what justifies extending a
particular protection regime (baseline) to all
registrants worldwide, especially when a technical
system can support situational-based needs?
Over-compliance is not necessary, and over-compliance
erodes the proper use of WHOIS. I suggest that a
proper solution is to enable compliance with a rule in
the situations in which the rule applies. The proper
solution is not to over-apply a rule, or to apply the
rule where it does not have power. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">All best,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">--Greg</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Source: <a
href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/cct-metrics-domain-name-registration-2016-06-27-en"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/cct-metrics-domain-name-registration-2016-06-27-en</a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext">**********************************</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext">Greg
Aaron</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext">Vice-President,
Product Management</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext">iThreat
Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext">mobile:
+1.215.858.2257</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext">**********************************</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext">The
information contained in this message is
privileged and confidential and protected from
disclosure. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient, or an employee or agent
responsible for delivering this message to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this communication in error, please
notify us immediately by replying to the message
and deleting it from your computer.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="color:windowtext"> gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathy Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:24 AM</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal
basis vs. lawful</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>More than half the countries in the world now have
comprehensive data protection laws, and the number
grows every year. We found that in our research of
foundation documents at the start of this WG. The
tipping point took place in 2015. As it happens,
Volker's approach simply does take this perspective
into account. </p>
</div>
</div>
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<p>Best, Kathy</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/13/2018 11:04 AM, Dotzero
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Volker,
you assert that "it would be sensible to take
GDPR as a basis and start from there". Perhaps
sensible from your perspective and easier from
your perspective but ICANN is an international
organization - primarily dealing with
technical/administrative issues - and it MUST
take an approach that, as best it can,
accommodates the laws and practices of various
jurisdictions around the world. Your proposed
approach, quite simply does not do that.</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael Hammer</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:54
AM, Volker Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
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<div>
<p>I think that it would be sensible to take
the GDPR as a basis and start from there.
Obviously, where it conflicts with other
applicable laws, we should make sure to
accomodate those as well, but as the EU
Commission and others have pointed out is
that compliance with GDPR does not preclude
providing certain access levels to certain
parties. What those levels would be and who
those parties could be should be the main
focus of our work.
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 13.02.2018 um
15:41 schrieb Chuck:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext">Volker,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext">Are you
saying that you think that RDS
policies should be designed to
comply with European regulations
and then applied to all other
jurisdictions in the world?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext">Chuck</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="color:windowtext">
Volker Greimann [</span><a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><span
style="color:windowtext">]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February
13, 2018 5:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chuck </span><a
href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><consult@cgomes.com></a><span
style="color:windowtext">;
'Michael Palage'
</span><a
href="mailto:michael@palage.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><michael@palage.com></a><span
style="color:windowtext"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><span
style="color:windowtext"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis
vs. lawful</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>I am afraid that if we create
different policies for different
regions, we will break the model,
encourage forum shopping and
encourage firewalling of entire
geographic sections of the net. I
hope that is not what we are doing
here.
</p>
<p>GDPR will cause some breakage of
this and I see it as our mission to
fix this breakage of the standard by
proposing a unified model once
again.
</p>
<p>Ultimately, if this solution does
what the EU has been asking for,
e.g. protect legitimate use cases of
registration data as well as the
rights of the data subjects, there
is no reason why it should not be
universally applicable.
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 13.02.2018
um 00:04 schrieb Chuck:</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
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<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Volker,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The WG could
recommend policies that are
‘universally applicable to all
registrations’ but I seriously
doubt that will happen in today’s
world. That would be much simpler
than policies that vary by region
and users, but is it realistic?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chuck</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker
Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February
12, 2018 2:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Michael Palage <a
href="mailto:michael@palage.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><michael@palage.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis
vs. lawful</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael is
right. ICANN iOS based on the
thought of “One World; one
Internet”. This also means that
the policies it creates should be
universally applicable to all
registrations, if possible. IF we
start creating policy that
diverges, that would only lead to
further fragmentation and
undermine the founding ideal of
ICANN itself. Our aim should be to
create one policy that can be
applied to all or most
registrations and that can be
implemented by all registrars
alike. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">While we will
likely have a certain amount of
fragmentation following May 25
as each contracted party applies
its own solution, it should be
our goal to overcome this and
present a new unified policy
that works for all contracted
parties. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Volker</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
</p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
12. Feb 2018, at 20:27,
Michael Palage <<a
href="mailto:michael@palage.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">michael@palage.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Greg/John,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I
will respectfully push
back on your legal
over simplification of
the GDPR.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The
exterritorial aspect
of the GDPR set forth
in Article 3 is NOT
just limited to EU
residents/citizens.
As Michele has noted
in the past, the GDPR
requires BlackKnight
as an Irish legal
entity to protect all
of its customers data
(EU/Non-EU) in
compliance with GDPR,
as well as US entities
that target and
conduct business
within the EU.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now
your points about the
distinction between
natural and legal
persons is a fair one
and one that has been
noted in EU and Art 29
communications. Could
you please share the
basis of your
proposition that 97%
of all domain name
registrations are
registered by legal
entities.<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As
I have note previously
the long term
viability of the ICANN
multi-stakeholder
model is at risk as
national governments
continue to pass
national laws that
impact the operation
of the Internet.
However, the European
Union is NOT alone in
advancing Privacy
Legislation, in fact
data localization is
perhaps the next
biggest lurking threat
to the domain name
system. <span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best
regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John
Horton via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday,
February 12, 2018 1:22
PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Greg
Aaron <<a
href="mailto:gca@icginc.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gca@icginc.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Legal basis vs. lawful</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444">I think
Greg is right
on. There's
simply no
justification to
force a law that
is only intended
to apply to a)
EU
residents/citizens
that are b)
natural persons
not using the
domain name for
commercial
purposes, to the
remaining...what? 97% - 99% of the world's registrant population? That
would be a
balanced way to
implement all of
this. </span></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763">John
Horton<br>
President and
CEO,
LegitScript</span></p>
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alt="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ"
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#444444">Follow</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"> </span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Legit</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Script</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">: </span><a
href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#cc0000">LinkedIn</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> |
</span><a
href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> |
</span><a
href="http://blog.legitscript.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#1155cc">Blog</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> |</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#ff9900"> </span><a
href="http://go.legitscript.com/Subscription-Management.html"
target="_blank"
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style="width:.4791in;height:1.0in"
id="m_-7901353447693506514_x0000_i1028"
src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"
alt="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#ff9900"><img
style="width:.4895in;height:1.0104in"
id="m_-7901353447693506514_x0000_i1027"
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alt="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ"
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Mon, Feb 12, 2018
at 9:57 AM, Greg
Aaron <<a
href="mailto:gca@icginc.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">gca@icginc.com</span></a>>
wrote:</p>
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</blockquote>
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<div class="m_-7901353447693506514WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
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<p
class="MsoNormal">I
don’t know if
we arrive at
the same
place. <span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">GDPR
is based on
one
principle. It
states what is
legal. It's
explicit about
what you _are
allowed to
do_; granted
there’s some
flexibility
and room for
interpretation.
It’s like
saying what’s
inside a box.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">U.S.
law is one
based on
different
principles.
AFAIK U.S.
consumer
protection law
does not
enumerate
specifically
what is
lawful.
Instead it
tends to state
what is
illegal, what
you are _not
allowed to
do_. It’s
like saying
what’s outside
the box. The
U.S. doesn’t
have something
like GDPR that
spells out
legal bases
for collecting
data, i.e. the
enumerated
allowable
reasons.
Instead the
trade and
consumer
protection
laws basically
say: entities
have the right
to form
contracts
between
themselves,
they should
live up to the
contract,
don’t surprise
people, don’t
do certain
dishonest
things. <span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Here's
the problem:
if one makes
the GDPR
principle the
ICANN standard
and you apply
it to all
registrations,
then practices
that are
allowable in
one place
under the law
(like the
U.S.) would no
longer be
allowed there
by ICANN
policy.
ICANN would
be choosing
one legal
approach or
regime for
everyone in
the world. <span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">The
alternative is
to apply the
GDRP only to
those that it
is designed to
protect:
registrants
in the EU.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">For
example,
there’s
nothing in
U.S. law that
prohibits a
U.S. registrar
from having a
contract that
says
publication of
full contact
data in WHOIS
is a
condition of
registering a
domain name if
you are a
registrant in
the U.S.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">See<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://iapp.org/news/a/explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-american/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">https://iapp.org/news/a/explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-american/</span></a>
for more.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Silver,
Bradley via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday,
February 9,
2018 2:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Volker
Greimann <<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></a>>;<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d">It is true that the GDPR is prescriptive, although
also rather
open-ended
(hence our
current
pickle). But
regardless of
the term we
use, don’t we
arrive at the
same place:
which is that
if something
that requires
a legal basis
is done
without one,
it will be
unlawful?
Using Kathy’s
example, if
data is
processed
without
complying with
minimization
or purpose
principles,
will such
processing not
run afoul of
the law, and
hence be
unlawful? <span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d">There are important distinctions between the
meaning of
“legal basis”
which implies
that a law
requires
something to
be
affirmatively
present,
versus
“lawful”,
which means
that something
is not
prohibited by
law.
Ultimately
though, isn’t
“lawfulness”,
the same end
point,
regardless? <span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[</span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">]<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Volker
Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday,
February 09,
2018 11:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I
do not see
how. Kathy's
analysis seems
sound. The
flexibility
within the
GDPR still
only allows
processing in
very specific
cicumstances,
all of which
are listed in
the GDPR.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Am
09.02.2018 um
16:45 schrieb
Victoria
Sheckler:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Kathy’s
analysis
breaks down on
a practical
level when one
looks at the
GDPR and what
it says about
when data can
be processed.
The GDPR
allows for
flexibility
for what can
be processed
and when, and
kathy’s
analysis
overlooks that
point.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[<a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Kathy
Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday,
February 8,
2018 7:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Tx
for the
invitation to
join, Chuck,
and following
up on the
discussion of
Sam and
Tapani, let me
add that
criteria for
processing
must be
clearer than
something
broadly within
ICANN's
mission
statement and
something
permissible
somewhere. The
requirements
under law are
express and
concrete.<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Specifically,
GDPR Article
5(1)(b and c)
states:</span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b>Personal data shall be:<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
2.
"collected for<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><u>specified,
explicit and
legitimate
purposes<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></u>and
not further
processed in a
manner that is
incompatible
with those
purposes"</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>(the
"purpose
limitation")
AND<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><b><br>
3.
"adequate,
relevant and
limited to
what is
necessary in
relation to
the purposes
for which they
are processed"</b><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>(the
"data
minimisation"
requirement).
[underline
added]<b><br>
</b><br>
Thus, our
first criteria
of "consistent
with ICANN's
mission," is
only the first
step and we
need to go
further than
even the 3
criteria we
are
discussing..<br>
<br>
Second, lawful
and legal
enter us into
a debate over
words and I
have to agree
with Sam and
Tapani's
analysis and
let me add
some of my
own.<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
"Legal" is the
term we use
for actions
expressly
allowed under
law. How we
process
personal data
under the GDRP
falls into
this category
-- of
processing
expressly
allowed under
law. Whereas
the term
lawful is used
for a much
broader
category of
actions which
are generally
permissible
and allowable.<br>
<br>
The term
"legal" is
much more
consistent
with our
criteria
statement
because the
processing of
personal data
by ICANN must
clearly have a<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><i>valid
legal basis</i><span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span>as
expressly
defined by
data
protection
laws.<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
Best regards,<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Kathy<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
On 2/7/2018
10:53 AM, Sam
Lanfranco
wrote:</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Thanks
Tapani,</span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I will extract from your longer message.<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
I deliberately
kept my brief
and less
technical.<br>
I think we are
in agreement
here and I
support your
position.</p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#660000">On 2/7/2018 1:07 AM, Tapani Tarvainen wrote:<br>
<br>
The key
distinction,
as I
understand it,
is that
"lawful" would
be<br>
defined by
the negative,
everything
that some law
does not
prohibit,<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:#660000">where as "legal
basis" is
defined by the
positive, only
things whose<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
justification
can be
explicitly
derived from
law.<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
<......><br>
<br>
So I would
prefer "legal
basis"
specifically
in this sense:
that any
processing<br>
would have to
be explicitly
based on one
of the
criteria, or
bases, as
listed<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
in GDPR
Article 6, or
similar
explicit
justification
in other data
protection
legislation.<span
class="m_-7901353447693506514m692055522894869952apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
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<pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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