<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">This makes a lot os good sense to me<div><br></div><div>Holly<br><div><br></div><div><br><div style=""><div>On 15 Feb 2018, at 3:14 am, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p>Best case: Everyone agrees on a common adoption of an
implementation for an RDS that is fully compliant with all
applicable data protection laws and still provides for an ability
to get access to that data if a legitimate interest in accessing a
particular data set exists. Data retention will be reduced to the
maximum allowable limit under the jurisdiction the registrar
operates in (nothin new here, just re-stating what should already
be the case), and collection will be limited to those data sets
for which valid justifications exist at the time the service is
requested. <br>
</p><p>Legitimate accessors could be: LEAs of appropriate jurisdiction
(either registrar or data subject), accredited/certified
accessors, entities acting on behalf of data subject, etc. <br>
</p><p>Heretic thought of the day: We will probably be looking at a
thin/distributed model again, or at least a model where data does
not leave certain jurisdictions without legitimate
reasons/justification.</p><p><br>
</p><p>For a possible example of how a GDPR compliant RDS might look,
please have a look at:</p><p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://webwhois.nic.amsterdam/">http://webwhois.nic.amsterdam/</a> and <br>
</p><p>search for: <br>
</p><p><i>dejong.amsterdam</i> for an example of a domain with data
provided by a private individual, or</p><p><i>neuken.amsterdam</i> for an example of a domain with data
provided by an organization.<br>
</p><p>Also note that certain requesters can be provided with access to
full data whois under:</p>
<pre><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://nic.amsterdam/whois-privacy">http://nic.amsterdam/whois-privacy</a>
</pre>
This would be one possible implementation of the tiered access model
suggested by the EWG.<br>
<br>
I am not saying thisis the perfect model, but it is _a_ possible
model that has already been given a nod by the dutch data privacy
official. It does provide full access to certain parties with
legitimate interest.<br>
<br>
<br>
Heretic thought of the day #2: It may be the case that we have
looked at this entire issue from the wrong end. I know we agreed on
the existing work plan, but instead of debating endlessly about
purposes and legal vs. legitimate, we might have been better served
by at first building a tight model and then look at what can and
should be collected into this model and who would be given access to
what and how. <br>
<br>
VG<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 14.02.2018 um 16:41 schrieb DANIEL
NANGHAKA:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAD4W+iOjQBNa-AY0A3WWK11szmjmGSF2p18N3pjcj+hOYPwi+g@mail.gmail.com">GDPR
is one of the issues that calls for compliance. We should not
neglect the other global issues. What we need is a bench mark then
after follow the global compliance standards. GDPR is not the
only. At the beginning of this WG, there was a review of the
different Policies and laws which we cannot just throw away. GDPR
should not make us loose our direction but we review the GDPR and
discuss how it affects RDS.
<div><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
<br>
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chuck <<a href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com" moz-do-not-send="true">consult@cgomes.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div><p class="MsoNormal">I apologize for injecting this
message way to late in the thread and for not responding
to Alan Greenberg’s suggestion yesterday, but I was
unavoidably offline for the last 18+ hours.</p><div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal">As of now, let’s change the title of
this thread to ‘Using the GDPR as a basis for RDS
Policy’. For any future responses to earlier messages
about this topic, please change the subject.</p><div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal">Note that I changed the subject in my
reply. Feel free to respond to this message with
additional discussion about messages below. I hope this
works; if anyone has a different suggestion regarding
how to do this, please feel free to communicate it.</p><div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal">Chuck</p><div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Keating<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 14, 2018 4:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dotzero <<a href="mailto:dotzero@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dotzero@gmail.com</a>>;
Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> RDS PDP WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis
vs. lawful</p>
</div>
</div><div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Correct but
they are the ones collecting the data so unless they
are convinced of the need and legal ability they
simply will not collect it. Processing only comes
after collection.</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:
</b><span style="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg
<<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>>
on behalf of Dotzero <<a href="mailto:dotzero@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dotzero@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>RDS PDP WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis
vs. lawful</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df
4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Volcker,</span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Registrars
are not the only constituency with a stake in
this. </span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Michael
Hammer</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">On Tue, Feb
13, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div><p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Hi
Mike,</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">no,
sensible because a great number of
registrars will be forced to deal with this
anyway, because this will affect a great
many of registrations and therefore it makes
sense to take this as a basis. Of course we
will then need to see if there need to be
tweaks to accomodate for other
jurisdictions, but as more as more countries
are adopting similar regimes....</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Sure
it will be more restrictive than open access
and some people may have a harder time than
today getting at certain information, but
with tiered access access would still be
possible for those with overriding
legitimate interests. That is the model the
EU commission hinted at. Not the only model,
but a working one.</span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#888888">Volker</span></p>
<div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Am
13.02.2018 um 17:04 schrieb Dotzero:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Volker,
you assert that "it would be
sensible to take GDPR as a basis
and start from there". Perhaps
sensible from your perspective and
easier from your perspective but
ICANN is an international
organization - primarily dealing
with technical/administrative
issues - and it MUST take an
approach that, as best it can,
accommodates the laws and
practices of various jurisdictions
around the world. Your proposed
approach, quite simply does not do
that.</span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Michael
Hammer</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">On
Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:54 AM,
Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div><p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I
think that it would be
sensible to take the GDPR as a
basis and start from there.
Obviously, where it conflicts
with other applicable laws, we
should make sure to accomodate
those as well, but as the EU
Commission and others have
pointed out is that compliance
with GDPR does not preclude
providing certain access
levels to certain parties.
What those levels would be and
who those parties could be
should be the main focus of
our work. </span></p>
<div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Am
13.02.2018 um 15:41
schrieb Chuck:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Volker,<span style=""></span></span></p><div><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> <span style=""></span></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Are you saying that you think that RDS policies
should be designed to
comply with European
regulations and then
applied to all other
jurisdictions in the
world?<span style=""></span></span></p><div><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> <span style=""></span></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Chuck<span style=""></span></span></p><div><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> <span style=""></span></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt">
Volker Greimann [<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.<wbr>net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Tuesday, February
13, 2018 5:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chuck <a href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><consult@cgomes.com></a>;
'Michael Palage' <a href="mailto:michael@palage.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><michael@palage.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Legal basis vs.
lawful<span style=""></span></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I
am afraid that if we
create different
policies for different
regions, we will break
the model, encourage
forum shopping and
encourage firewalling
of entire geographic
sections of the net. I
hope that is not what
we are doing here. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">GDPR
will cause some
breakage of this and I
see it as our mission
to fix this breakage
of the standard by
proposing a unified
model once again. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Ultimately,
if this solution does
what the EU has been
asking for, e.g.
protect legitimate use
cases of registration
data as well as the
rights of the data
subjects, there is no
reason why it should
not be universally
applicable. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Best,</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Volker</span></p><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Am 13.02.2018 um 00:04 schrieb
Chuck:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Volker,</span></p><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">The WG could recommend policies
that are
‘universally
applicable to all
registrations’ but I
seriously doubt that
will happen in
today’s world. That
would be much
simpler than
policies that vary
by region and users,
but is it realistic?</span></p><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Chuck</span></p><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of
</b>Volker
Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Monday, February
12, 2018 2:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b>
Michael Palage <a href="mailto:michael@palage.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><michael@palage.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Legal basis vs.
lawful</span></p>
</div>
</div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Michael is right. ICANN iOS based
on the thought of
“One World; one
Internet”. This also
means that the
policies it creates
should be
universally
applicable to all
registrations, if
possible. IF we
start creating
policy that
diverges, that would
only lead to further
fragmentation and
undermine the
founding ideal of
ICANN itself. Our
aim should be to
create one policy
that can be applied
to all or most
registrations and
that can be
implemented by all
registrars alike. </span></p>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">While we will likely have a certain
amount of
fragmentation
following May 25
as each contracted
party applies its
own solution, it
should be our goal
to overcome this
and present a new
unified policy
that works for all
contracted
parties. </span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Volker</span></p>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"><br>
<br>
</span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">On 12. Feb 2018, at 20:27, Michael
Palage <<a href="mailto:michael@palage.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">michael@palage.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Greg/John,</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I will respectfully push back on
your legal
over
simplification
of the GDPR.</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">The exterritorial aspect of the
GDPR set forth
in Article 3
is NOT just
limited to EU
residents/citizens. As Michele has noted in the past, the GDPR requires
BlackKnight as
an Irish legal
entity to
protect all of
its customers
data
(EU/Non-EU) in
compliance
with GDPR, as
well as US
entities that
target and
conduct
business
within the EU.</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Now your points about the
distinction
between
natural and
legal persons
is a fair one
and one that
has been noted
in EU and Art
29
communications.
Could you
please share
the basis of
your
proposition
that 97% of
all domain
name
registrations
are registered
by legal
entities.<span> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">As I have note previously the long
term viability
of the ICANN
multi-stakeholder
model is at
risk as
national
governments
continue to
pass national
laws that
impact the
operation of
the Internet.
However, the
European Union
is NOT alone
in advancing
Privacy
Legislation,
in fact data
localization
is perhaps the
next biggest
lurking threat
to the domain
name system. <span> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Best regards,</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Michael</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">From:</span></b><span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]<span> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></b>John
Horton via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Monday,
February 12,
2018 1:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span> </span>Greg
Aaron <<a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gca@icginc.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#444444">I
think Greg is
right on.
There's simply
no
justification
to force a law
that is only
intended to
apply to a) EU
residents/citizens that are b) natural persons not using the domain name
for commercial
purposes, to
the
remaining...what?
97% - 99% of
the world's
registrant
population?
That would be
a balanced way
to implement
all of this. </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"><br clear="all">
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763">John
Horton<br>
President and
CEO,
LegitScript</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"><img style="width:1.0in;height:.375in" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ" moz-do-not-send="true" height="36" width="96" border="0"></span></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:57 AM,
Greg Aaron
<<a href="mailto:gca@icginc.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">gca@icginc.com</span></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I don’t know if we arrive at the
same place. <span> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">GDPR is based on one principle. It
states what is
legal. It's
explicit about
what you _are
allowed to
do_; granted
there’s some
flexibility
and room for
interpretation.
It’s like
saying what’s
inside a box.</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">U.S. law is one based on different
principles.
AFAIK U.S.
consumer
protection law
does not
enumerate
specifically
what is
lawful.
Instead it
tends to state
what is
illegal, what
you are _not
allowed to
do_. It’s
like saying
what’s outside
the box. The
U.S. doesn’t
have something
like GDPR that
spells out
legal bases
for collecting
data, i.e. the
enumerated
allowable
reasons.
Instead the
trade and
consumer
protection
laws basically
say: entities
have the right
to form
contracts
between
themselves,
they should
live up to the
contract,
don’t surprise
people, don’t
do certain
dishonest
things. <span> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Here's the problem: if one makes
the GDPR
principle the
ICANN standard
and you apply
it to all
registrations,
then practices
that are
allowable in
one place
under the law
(like the
U.S.) would no
longer be
allowed there
by ICANN
policy.
ICANN would
be choosing
one legal
approach or
regime for
everyone in
the world. <span> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">The alternative is to apply the
GDRP only to
those that it
is designed to
protect:
registrants
in the EU.</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">For example, there’s nothing in
U.S. law that
prohibits a
U.S. registrar
from having a
contract that
says
publication of
full contact
data in WHOIS
is a
condition of
registering a
domain name if
you are a
registrant in
the U.S.</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">See<span> </span><a href="https://iapp.org/news/a/explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-american/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">https://iapp.org/news/a/<wbr>explaining-the-gdpr-to-an-<wbr>american/</span></a>
for more.</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">From:</span></b><span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Silver,
Bradley via
gnso-rds-pdp-wg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Friday,
February 9,
2018 2:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span> </span>Volker
Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></a>>;<span> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">g<wbr>nso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1f497d">It is true that the GDPR is
prescriptive,
although also
rather
open-ended
(hence our
current
pickle). But
regardless of
the term we
use, don’t we
arrive at the
same place:
which is that
if something
that requires
a legal basis
is done
without one,
it will be
unlawful?
Using Kathy’s
example, if
data is
processed
without
complying with
minimization
or purpose
principles,
will such
processing not
run afoul of
the law, and
hence be
unlawful? <span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1f497d">There are important distinctions
between the
meaning of
“legal basis”
which implies
that a law
requires
something to
be
affirmatively
present,
versus
“lawful”,
which means
that something
is not
prohibited by
law.
Ultimately
though, isn’t
“lawfulness”,
the same end
point,
regardless? <span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">gnso-rds-pdp-wg
[</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">]<span> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Volker
Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Friday,
February 09,
2018 11:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">I
do not see
how. Kathy's
analysis seems
sound. The
flexibility
within the
GDPR still
only allows
processing in
very specific
cicumstances,
all of which
are listed in
the GDPR.</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Am 09.02.2018 um 16:45 schrieb
Victoria
Sheckler:</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Kathy’s analysis breaks down on a
practical
level when one
looks at the
GDPR and what
it says about
when data can
be processed.
The GDPR
allows for
flexibility
for what can
be processed
and when, and
kathy’s
analysis
overlooks that
point.</span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">From:</span></b><span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Kathy
Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Thursday,
February 8,
2018 7:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Legal basis vs. lawful</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Tx for the invitation to join,
Chuck, and
following up
on the
discussion of
Sam and
Tapani, let me
add that
criteria for
processing
must be
clearer than
something
broadly within
ICANN's
mission
statement and
something
permissible
somewhere. The
requirements
under law are
express and
concrete.<span> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Specifically,
GDPR Article
5(1)(b and c)
states:</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Personal
data shall be:<span> </span><br>
2.
"collected for<span> </span><u>specified,
explicit and
legitimate
purposes<span> </span></u>and
not further
processed in a
manner that is
incompatible
with those
purposes"</span></b><span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">(the
"purpose
limitation")
AND<span> </span><b><br>
3.
"adequate,
relevant and
limited to
what is
necessary in
relation to
the purposes
for which they
are processed"</b><span> </span>(the
"data
minimisation"
requirement).
[underline
added]<b><br>
</b><br>
Thus, our
first criteria
of "consistent
with ICANN's
mission," is
only the first
step and we
need to go
further than
even the 3
criteria we
are
discussing..<br>
<br>
Second, lawful
and legal
enter us into
a debate over
words and I
have to agree
with Sam and
Tapani's
analysis and
let me add
some of my
own.<span> </span><br>
<br>
"Legal" is the
term we use
for actions
expressly
allowed under
law. How we
process
personal data
under the GDRP
falls into
this category
-- of
processing
expressly
allowed under
law. Whereas
the term
lawful is used
for a much
broader
category of
actions which
are generally
permissible
and allowable.<br>
<br>
The term
"legal" is
much more
consistent
with our
criteria
statement
because the
processing of
personal data
by ICANN must
clearly have a<span> </span><i>valid
legal basis</i><span> </span>as
expressly
defined by
data
protection
laws.<span> </span><br>
<br>
Best regards,<span> </span><br>
Kathy<span> </span><br>
<br>
On 2/7/2018
10:53 AM, Sam
Lanfranco
wrote:</span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Thanks
Tapani,</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I
will extract
from your
longer
message.<span> </span><br>
I deliberately
kept my brief
and less
technical.<br>
I think we are
in agreement
here and I
support your
position.</span></p>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#660000">On 2/7/2018 1:07 AM, Tapani
Tarvainen
wrote:<br>
<br>
The key
distinction,
as I
understand it,
is that
"lawful" would
be<br>
defined by
the negative,
everything
that some law
does not
prohibit,<span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#660000">where
as "legal
basis" is
defined by the
positive, only
things whose<span> </span><br>
justification
can be
explicitly
derived from
law.<span> </span><br>
<br>
<......><br>
<br>
So I would
prefer "legal
basis"
specifically
in this sense:
that any
processing<br>
would have to
be explicitly
based on one
of the
criteria, or
bases, as
listed<span> </span><br>
in GDPR
Article 6, or
similar
explicit
justification
in other data
protection
legislation.<span> </span><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
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Bei weiteren
Fragen stehen
wir Ihnen
gerne zur
Verfügung.<br>
<br>
Mit
freundlichen
Grüßen,<br>
<br>
Volker A.
Greimann<br>
-
Rechtsabteilung
-<br>
<br>
Key-Systems
GmbH<br>
<a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><br>
66386 St.
Ingbert<br>
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br>
<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Email: vgreimann@key-systems.<wbr>net</a><br>
<br>
Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www<wbr>.RRPproxy.net</a><br>
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<a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br>
<br>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br>
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br>
Umsatzsteuer
ID.:
DE211006534<br>
<br>
Member of the
KEYDRIVE GROUP<br>
<a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a><br>
<br>
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so bitten wir
Sie, sich mit
uns per E-Mail
oder
telefonisch in
Verbindung
zu setzen.<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>--------------<br>
<br>
Should you
have any
further
questions,
please do not
hesitate to
contact us.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Volker A.
Greimann<br>
- legal
department -<br>
<br>
Key-Systems
GmbH<br>
<a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><br>
66386 St.
Ingbert<br>
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br>
Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.<wbr>net</a><br>
<br>
Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www<wbr>.RRPproxy.net</a><br>
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<br>
Follow us on
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join our fan
community on
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stay updated:<br>
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<br>
CEO: Alexander
Siffrin<br>
Registration
No.: HR B
18835 -
Saarbruecken<br>
V.A.T. ID.:
DE211006534<br>
<br>
Member of the
KEYDRIVE GROUP<br>
<a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a><br>
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-- <br>
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<div> <br>
Regards <br>
Nanghaka Daniel K.<br>
<span style="font-size:small">Executive
Director - ILICIT Africa / Chair -
FOSSFA / Community Lead - ISOC Uganda
Chapter / Geo4Africa Lead / Organising
Team - FOSS4G2018</span><br>
Mobile +256 772 898298 (Uganda)<br>
</div>
<div>Skype: daniel.nanghaka<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-----------------------------------------
<i>"Working for Africa" </i>-----------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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