<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Who’s is even worse than whois from a data protection standpoint. Those services really need to go…<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Volker<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 18. Feb 2018, at 18:17, allison nixon <<a href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" class="">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Patrick's voice on this needs to be heard. Regardless of whether or not Godaddy's block was related to GDPR or not, it's a perfect example of what we're looking forward to when the exact same block is applied to all registrars and all queriers.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The web based portal is already a huge degradation in service quality. Many of us in the anti-abuse and network operator world rely heavily on "WHOWAS" and as it stands, that is ONLY available through resellers who make use of bulk queries to do it. If you don't like that, then give us a better alternative so we can keep doing our jobs and keep the Internet functioning.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Why is the blanket assumption that bulk queriers, and queriers of new domains are abusive? Maybe a security system wondered "Why is a never-before-seen-domain sending me an email with an executable attachment?" Do you think that could ever possibly happen on the Internet? How many SOC and NOC IP addresses are blocked by Godaddy? One of my IP addresses are blocked. Why is our activity deemed abusive? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Due to this change I am hearing complaints from people responsible for keeping tier-1 and tier-2 networks working. Not just blocklist maintainers. Take this seriously.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 10:09 AM, <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:pkngrds@klos.net" target="_blank" class="">pkngrds@klos.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
<div class="m_-3087643058530782048moz-cite-prefix">On 2/18/2018 9:14 AM,
<a class="m_-3087643058530782048moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com" target="_blank">consult@cgomes.com</a> wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="m_-3087643058530782048WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">Patrick,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">Let me first
call attention to the fact that I cc’d the leadership team
so that they can judge whether my suggestion was ridiculous
or not.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Let me call attention to the fact that I cc'd the entire list so the
community can be involved in the conversation as well. (as you say
"we all have to work collaboratively in this WG")<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="m_-3087643058530782048WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">I am not in
a position to determine what the truth is in this situation,
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Well, I AM in such a position because IT HAPPENED TO ME. <br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="m_-3087643058530782048WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">but, even if
you are correct in your assessment, giving Sara a chance to
respond to your strong accusation privately </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Big companies like GoDaddy will not respond privately - it's beneath
them. Believe me, I've tried.<br class="">
<br class="">
If Sara was interested in responding to my claims, she has had every
opportunity to do so, either privately or publicly. I have not
heard a peep from her.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="m_-3087643058530782048WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">would be
much more respectful than making your accusation publicly.
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
It's not an accusation - it's a statement of facts. I welcome Sara
and/or GoDaddy to present any evidence to the contrary.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="m_-3087643058530782048WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">Email
communications are very easily misunderstood and/or poorly
expressed. I do not know whether that is the case here or
not; I am sure you do not believe that is the case, but
giving her the benefit of the doubt and asking her to
explain further privately would have been a much better
approach in my opinion. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
As I said, I have no reason to believe she would respond to a
private discussion of this matter. I have tried several time to
discuss GoDaddy's port 43 restrictions with them and they would not
respond to me. GoDaddy is too big to care about the opinions of a
single anti-phishing anti-spam anti-abuse advocate that disagrees
with GoDaddy's illegal restrictions on port 43 WHOIS.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="m_-3087643058530782048WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">The fact is
that we all have to work collaboratively in this WG.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Which is why this should be discussed on the list as well. I know
I'm not the only person on the list that feels this way.<br class="">
<br class="">
Patrick Klos<br class="">
Phishcop Admin<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="m_-3087643058530782048WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">Chuck<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<div class="">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="color:windowtext" class="">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext" class=""> <a class="m_-3087643058530782048moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pkngrds@klos.net" target="_blank">pkngrds@klos.net</a>
[<a class="m_-3087643058530782048moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:pkngrds@klos.net" target="_blank">mailto:pkngrds@klos.net</a>] <br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Saturday, February 17, 2018 1:20 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a class="m_-3087643058530782048moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com" target="_blank">consult@cgomes.com</a><span class=""><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Krebs On Security
article RE whois and GDRP<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On 2/17/2018 2:11 PM, <a href="mailto:consult@cgomes.com" target="_blank" class="">consult@cgomes.com</a>
wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">Patrick,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">If you are
going to specifically criticize a company by name, please
do that directly with that company and not on this list.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class="">Chuck</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
That's ridiculous. <br class="">
<br class="">
Sara Bockey, representing GoDaddy, made statements on the list
that do not reflect the truth. It is my obligation to refute
her claims publicly on the same forum her original statements
were made.<br class="">
<br class="">
Patrick Klos<br class="">
Klos Technologies, Inc. and Phishcop Admin<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="color:windowtext" class="">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext" class=""> gnso-rds-pdp-wg [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr class="">bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:pkngrds@klos.net" target="_blank" class="">pkngrds@klos.net</a><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Friday, February 16, 2018 3:35 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><span class=""><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Krebs On
Security article RE whois and GDRP</span></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On 2/16/2018 5:22 PM, Sara Bockey
wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><div class=""><div class="h5">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="m_-3087643058530782048s2">Not only is our
decision to mask customer information in Port43
completely unrelated to GDPR, but it results
directly from attacks by third parties who harvest and
sell our customers’ personal information. </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
I don't know what precipitated this conversation, but I will
jump in here based on my actual experience.<br class="">
<br class="">
To say "<span class="m_-3087643058530782048s2">it results directly from attacks
by third parties who harvest and sell our customers’
personal information" is a complete lie!<br class="">
<br class="">
GoDaddy has blocked MANY IP addresses I've attempted to
use port 43 WHOIS on with absolutely no due process! And
I can say with absolute certainty that I and my IP
addresses were not involved in any form of "attack(s) by
third parties".<br class="">
<br class="">
But if I wanted to continue fighting phishing, spammers
and other abuses without being forced to use GoDaddy's
cumbersome web interface (with their stupid "I'm not a
robot" and "Choose all the pictures that have a goldfish
in them" games) to process each WHOIS request, I would
have to give in to GoDaddy's illegal blocking (restricted
WHOIS output) and sign their "whitelist request" to get
myself back to business!!!<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="m_-3087643058530782048s2">Given the onslaught of
spam and robo-calls our customers have been receiving
– often within minutes of registering a domain
name—we felt that action was required, if not overdue. </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
I'm not sure I can see how port 43 WHOIS requests can be
used to determine new domain registrations in the way you
imply? Maybe you can share how that works??<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: 16.2pt;" class=""><span class="m_-3087643058530782048s2">WHOIS information is still very much
available for any & all domain names via our
web-based WHOIS tool, </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
It may be available, but it's quite cumbersome and a waste
of good peoples' time!!<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: 16.2pt;" class=""><span class="m_-3087643058530782048s2">However, bulk access by anonymous users is no
longer supported.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
I didn't know "bulk access by anonymous users" was ever a
thing?!? If you were intent on blocking "bulk access", why
should that have impacted port 43 WHOIS requests for single
domains???<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: 16.2pt;" class=""><span class="m_-3087643058530782048s2">I also note that during this entire process,
we have kept ICANN informed of both the attacks on our
Port43 systems</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
Please provide the evidence of my "attacks" that you've
provided to ICANN to justify your restricting WHOIS data to
any of my IP addresses.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: 16.2pt;" class=""><span class="m_-3087643058530782048s2">as well as our efforts to mitigate them. Our
actions are justified and to imply otherwise is not only
inaccurate but does nothing to move this PDP forward.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br class="">
Your actions were unilateral and (in my opinion) violated
your registrar agreement(s) with ICANN. You're allowed to
block ABUSIVE behavior, but you blocked many many requests
with absolutely no evidence of abuse! How can you justify
that???<br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="m_-3087643058530782048s2">Patrick Klos<br class="">
Phishcop Admin</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class="">
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________<br class="">Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">-- <br class="">Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<br class=""><br class="">Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br class=""><br class="">Volker A. Greimann<br class="">- Rechtsabteilung -<br class=""><br class="">Key-Systems GmbH<br class="">Im Oberen Werk 1<br class="">66386 St. Ingbert<br class="">Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<br class="">Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<br class=""><a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" class="">Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br class=""><br class="">Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net<br class="">www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com<br class=""><br class="">Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<br class="">www.facebook.com/KeySystems<br class="">www.twitter.com/key_systems<br class=""><br class="">Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br class="">Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br class="">Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<br class=""><br class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br class="">www.keydrive.lu<br class=""><br class="">Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<br class=""><br class="">--------------------------------------------<br class=""><br class="">Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<br class=""><br class="">Best regards,<br class=""><br class="">Volker A. Greimann<br class="">- legal department -<br class=""><br class="">Key-Systems GmbH<br class="">Im Oberen Werk 1<br class="">66386 St. Ingbert<br class="">Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<br class="">Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<br class="">Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<br class=""><br class="">Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net<br class="">www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com<br class=""><br class="">Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<br class="">www.facebook.com/KeySystems<br class="">www.twitter.com/key_systems<br class=""><br class="">CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br class="">Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br class="">V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<br class=""><br class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br class="">www.keydrive.lu<br class=""><br class="">This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.</div>
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