<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Thank you for your helpful, concise but erroneous contribution.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The difference between whois details and DNS entries, name servers, etc is that the latter are actually technically necessary to provide the service, so comparing the two is like comparing apples to elephants. Not even in the same classification of life.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Volker<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 20. Feb 2018, at 18:35, allison nixon <<a href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" class="">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">wrong</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class="">Actually, we can. No whois, no risk of prosecution for unlawful processing in form of publication.<div class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 20. Feb 2018, at 17:47, allison nixon <<a href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_2115653361003956841Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">1,000,000% agreed. Registrars cannot eliminate all their risk by masking WHOIS into oblivion. The DPAs can still ask why they are exposing A records, nameservers, etc, to anyone who asks for them, without valid reasons or authentication. Why do they expose zone files, etc. The DPAs can ask why customer support can sometimes so easily be social engineered into handing over accounts to account takeover scammers. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Since most registrars are also hosting providers/mail providers, would criminals storing stolen PII on your servers be a GDPR issue? After all, the ultimate owner of the server is also considered a "processor", which has interesting implications if one's customers include phishers, or sell stolen credit cards, and one's already been notified. I have even seen miscreants putting doxes in TXT records.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I already know of quite a few incidents where people would have had standing to file a GDPR complaint against registrars/hosters, unrelated to WHOIS.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Eventually the issue is going to impact the core business model of registrars. This isn't going to stop at WHOIS. An open dialog with the DPAs at an early stage is of utmost importance for all parties involved here.<br class=""></div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Sam Lanfranco <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:sam@lanfranco.net" target="_blank" class="">sam@lanfranco.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">Benny,</p><p class="">This is why I support multi-venue multi-stakholder dialogue with
the DPA's so that they are appraised of the issues on all sides of
the data protection issue. They are then more likely to act in a
judicious manner, and less like an attack dog. Watch the new movie
"<b class=""><i class="">The Post</i></b>" where when <i class="">Washington Post</i> owner
<span class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673st"> Katharine Graham decided to publish the Vietnam
War Pentagon Papers, with the downside risk that she could be
jailed for treason. The court ruled in favor of freedom of the
press. It is not what the DPA can do, but what they are likely
to do, and dialogue goes a long way to mitigating risk and
shaping appropriate positions and behavior (with integrity) on
all sides. <br class="">
</span></p><p class=""><span class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673st">Sam L.<br class="">
</span></p><span class="">
<br class="">
<div class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673moz-cite-prefix">On 2/19/2018 10:02 AM, <a class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se" target="_blank">benny@nordreg.se</a>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
</span><blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class="">
<ironi on> Now I am relieved, we as registrars will not be
subject for anything… </ironi off>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</span><div class="">None of us know where and what they will prioritise,<b class=""><i class="">
remember that it only take 1 complaint to a DPA to get the
snowball moving.</i></b> [emphasis added] I am sure your
statement have noe value then.</div><span class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><span class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">
<div class="">--</div>
<div class="">Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards
/ Med vennlig hilsen</div>
</div>
</span><span class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673Apple-style-span" style="text-align:-webkit-auto;border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">
</div>
</span><span class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673Apple-style-span" style="text-align:-webkit-auto;border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
Benny Samuelsen<br class="">
Registry Manager - Domainexpert<br class="">
<br class="">
Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar</div>
<div class="">IANA-ID: 638</div>
</div>
</span><span class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673Apple-style-span" style="text-align:-webkit-auto;border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">
Phone: <a href="tel:+46%2042%2019%2070%2000" value="+4642197000" target="_blank" class="">+46.42197000</a><br class="">
Direct: <a href="tel:+47%2032%2026%2002%2001" value="+4732260201" target="_blank" class="">+47.32260201</a><br class="">
Mobile: <a href="tel:+47%20404%2010%20200" value="+4740410200" target="_blank" class="">+47.40410200</a></div>
</span></div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 19 Feb 2018, at 15:29, Sam Lanfranco <<a href="mailto:sam@lanfranco.net" target="_blank" class="">sam@lanfranco.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">Hi Tim, <br class="">
</p><p class="">No, completely to the contrary. My point
with that dollars reference was that in some cases
litigation is the preferred business response, rather
than compliance and paying fines. Also, the big
revenues in mining big data are outside the DNS
sphere, and outside the abuses and "bad things" that
websites do to people. The big EU fines are more
likely to hit social media than Registrars, although
they are risks there as well. The revenues, and
privacy violations, will come from profiling users by
mining big data for scraps of personal date to
individualize target marketing. <br class="">
</p><p class=""><b class=""><i class="">As a brief aside:</i></b>
This goes well beyond the remit of ICANN and is
actually worse than just being inundated by adverts
base on personal online behavior. Artificial
Intelligence mining apps are increasingly customizing
the "news" one gets from news feeds, to help "glue the
eyeballs" to the adverts, creating a news silo of
one. (That is amusing for me since I virtually live
in two towns in two countries). Even more worrisome is
the growing practice for A.I. companies where A.I.
"writes" the news releases, now mainly in sports and
finance, for thousands of print and online news
outlets. I know all of this is outside the ICANN remit
so I will stop there.
<br class="">
</p><p class="">Sam L. <br class="">
</p>
<br class="">
<div class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673moz-cite-prefix">On 2/18/2018 5:43 PM, Chen,
Tim wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Sam,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">When you say these are hundred million
dollar issues for "the companies",which companies
are you talking about? Large Registrars?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I hope you are not comparing
cybersecurity professionals and the good work they
are trying to enable, to a completely separate
privacy issue around data used for ad tracking or
behavior tracking across websites. If I spent my
days trying to protect people on the internet from
bad things, I would certainly not appreciate any
allusion that I was engaged on the whois data
issue 'for the money'.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Tim</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
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</div>
</span></blockquote><span class="m_2115653361003956841HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class="">
<br class="">
<pre class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------------------------<wbr class="">------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------<wbr class="">------------------
Visiting Prof, Xi'an Jaiotong-Liverpool Univ, Suzhou, China
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
email: <a class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sam@lanfranco.net" target="_blank">sam@lanfranco.net</a> Skype: slanfranco
blog: <a class="m_2115653361003956841m_-8009525005773725673moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">https://samlanfranco.blogspot.<wbr class="">com</a>
Phone: <a href="tel:(613)%20476-0429" value="+16134760429" target="_blank" class="">+1 613-476-0429</a> cell: <a href="tel:(416)%20816-2852" value="+14168162852" target="_blank" class="">+1 416-816-2852</a></pre>
</font></span></div>
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______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><div class="">
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">-- <br class="">Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<br class=""><br class="">Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br class=""><br class="">Volker A. Greimann<br class="">- Rechtsabteilung -<br class=""><br class="">Key-Systems GmbH<br class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><br class=""><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g" class="">66386 St. Ingbert</a><br class="">Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank" class="">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br class="">Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank" class="">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br class=""><a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" class="">Email: vgreimann@key-systems.<wbr class="">net</a><br class=""><br class="">Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" class="">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" class="">www<wbr class="">.RRPproxy.net</a><br class=""><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" class="">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" class="">www<wbr class="">.BrandShelter.com</a><br class=""><br class="">Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<br class=""><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" class="">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br class=""><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" class="">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br class=""><br class="">Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br class="">Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br class="">Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<br class=""><br class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br class=""><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" class="">www.keydrive.lu</a><br class=""><br class="">Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. 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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">-- <br class="">Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<br class=""><br class="">Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br class=""><br class="">Volker A. Greimann<br class="">- Rechtsabteilung -<br class=""><br class="">Key-Systems GmbH<br class="">Im Oberen Werk 1<br class="">66386 St. Ingbert<br class="">Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<br class="">Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<br class=""><a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" class="">Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br class=""><br class="">Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net<br class="">www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com<br class=""><br class="">Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<br class="">www.facebook.com/KeySystems<br class="">www.twitter.com/key_systems<br class=""><br class="">Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br class="">Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br class="">Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<br class=""><br class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br class="">www.keydrive.lu<br class=""><br class="">Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<br class=""><br class="">--------------------------------------------<br class=""><br class="">Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<br class=""><br class="">Best regards,<br class=""><br class="">Volker A. Greimann<br class="">- legal department -<br class=""><br class="">Key-Systems GmbH<br class="">Im Oberen Werk 1<br class="">66386 St. Ingbert<br class="">Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<br class="">Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<br class="">Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net<br class=""><br class="">Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net<br class="">www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com<br class=""><br class="">Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<br class="">www.facebook.com/KeySystems<br class="">www.twitter.com/key_systems<br class=""><br class="">CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br class="">Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br class="">V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<br class=""><br class="">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br class="">www.keydrive.lu<br class=""><br class="">This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.</div>
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