<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Thanks, Michele, I had understood that. I'm not seeking to minimize the "mess," but I think it was messy in PPSAI for reasons far beyond the challenges of distinguishing a non-commercial use from a commercial one. I also don't think it requires digging into content (as opposed to "use"), though I'm sure there are edge cases one can find.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:58 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank">michele@blacknight.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-IE" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="m_-4299282009898693044WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I’m not disputing the legal vs natural person difference. I was referring to the commentary around commercial use. Which is both a mess to untangle and a matter of content.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
Michele<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">--</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">Mr Michele Neylon</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">Blacknight Solutions</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">Hosting, Colocation & Domains<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank">https://www.blacknight.com/</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563c1">https://blacknight.blog/</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563c1">https://ceo.hosting/</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">------------------------------<wbr>-</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday 11 March 2018 at 15:56<br>
<b>To: </b>Michele Neylon <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank">michele@blacknight.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>John Bambenek <<a href="mailto:jcb@bambenekconsulting.com" target="_blank">jcb@bambenekconsulting.com</a>>, RDS WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>></span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><a name="m_-4299282009898693044__MailOriginalBody"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222">I agree with Bradley that dealing with "use" or types of users do not come close to "regulating content."
Indeed, the actual content is irrelevant.<u></u><u></u></span></a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222">While the noncommercial vs. commercial discussion is interesting, we need to decide if that
is relevant first, i.e., do we want to require different things of "commercial persons" as opposed to "noncommercial persons". If it's not relevant, it's a gaping rabbit-hole. If it is relevant, I think we should discuss what we would want to be different
<i>before</i> getting into the issue of distinguishing commercial from non-commercial. (While it's not simple, my view is that many of the complexities visited on the PPSAI conversation were due to "externalities" and not the narrow question of designing a
proper filter.)<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">GDPR has a different dividing line, between natural persons and legal persons
(e.g., partnerships, corporations, etc.), and it may be confusing to blend the two.</span></span><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"><br>
<br>
</span></span><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">GDPR doesn't deal with legal persons, so Tapani's statement is technically
correct: "</span></span><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222">It doesn't say anything about<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">what we should do with legal persons. So as far as GDPR is concerned, there's no problem in affording legal persons same protection as natural ones."<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">It's equally true that, as far as GDPR is concerned, there's no problem in NOT affording legal persons the same protections as natural persons.
In sum, GDPR provides no basis for giving legal persons such protections. However as far as many things other than GDPR is concerned, there are significant problems in affording legal persons the same protection as natural ones. So, GDPR should not provide
a "jumping-off point" for an effort, not grounded in GDPR or even the rule of law, to provide those protections to legal persons.<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#222222"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <</span><a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank"><span>michele@blacknight.com</span><span></span></a><span>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">John</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">If it was simple we wouldn’t have spent as long as we did in the PPSAI PDP discussing and debating it.</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Michele</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">--</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Mr Michele Neylon</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Blacknight Solutions</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Hosting, Colocation & Domains</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US">https://www.blacknight.com/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0563c1">https://blacknight.blog/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0563c1">https://ceo.hosting/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">------------------------------<wbr>-</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b></span><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">John Bambenek <</span></span><a href="mailto:jcb@bambenekconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">jcb@bambenekconsulting.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday 11 March 2018 at 15:38</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
<b>To: </b>Michele Neylon <</span><a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank"><span>michele@blacknight.com</span><span></span></a><span>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Volker Greimann <</span><a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"><span>vgreimann@key-systems.net</span><span></span></a><span>>,
sivasubramanian muthusamy <</span><a href="mailto:6.internet@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>6.internet@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span>>,
RDS WG <</span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span><span></span></a><span>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The legal vs natural person debate is simple. Surely we can agree on that.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>I think there is a great deal of overcomplicating commercial purpose just in my quick review. We need not let the exceptions drive the rule.
One quick indicator is “accepts payments”. I bet we could all come up with a dozen are so unambiguous indicators quickly. Let the edge cases be adjudicated. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div id="m_-4299282009898693044m_310501411992832926AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>--
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>John Bambenek<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span><br>
On Mar 11, 2018, at 14:28, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <</span><a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank"><span>michele@blacknight.com</span><span></span></a><span>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">John</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">While the final report I pointed you to contains the conclusions I’d recommend you take the time to have a look over
the PPSAI deliberations on this matter.</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">You talked about “commercial use”, which is understandable, however, as the discussions show it is not as simple
as a difference between legal person and natural person.</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Michele</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">--</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Mr Michele Neylon</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Blacknight Solutions</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Hosting, Colocation & Domains</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US">https://www.blacknight.com/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0563c1">https://blacknight.blog/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0563c1">https://ceo.hosting/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">------------------------------<wbr>-</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b></span><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">John Bambenek <</span></span><a href="mailto:jcb@bambenekconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">jcb@bambenekconsulting.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday 11 March 2018 at 15:06<br>
<b>To: </b>Michele Neylon <</span></span><a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">michele@blacknight.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Volker Greimann <</span></span><a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">>,
sivasubramanian muthusamy <</span></span><a href="mailto:6.internet@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">6.internet@gmail.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">>,
RDS WG <</span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Ok, well having read that I believe my answer is still a valid response to Volker. You ask during registration, make it mandatory to
answer one way or the other, and in complaints simple use the definitions in use in the jurisdiction involved. Surely every country on earth knows the difference between legal and natural persons, and I think tax law is an easy barometer for determining commercial
activity. Yes, it puts some effort on providers who want to avoid “content” but I reiterate the point of contention here:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>That those who actually work in security and those who actually work in protecting privacy (with lone exceptions of DPAs) are of the loud,
firm, and unanimous contention that not having access to this information in a free, easy, and programmatic way while lead to a dramatic and clear lose of privacy far beyond the presence of emails in whois/rds. The policy position that we must extend full
privacy to everyone (despite a mandate to extend that far) is fundamentally unnecessary and that the security and stability of the internet which is actually in ICANNs mission is more important than convenience of registries/registrars in dealing with how
to define commercial which is NOT in ICANNs mission. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div id="m_-4299282009898693044m_310501411992832926AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>--
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>John Bambenek<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span><br>
On Mar 11, 2018, at 13:39, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <</span><a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank"><span>michele@blacknight.com</span><span></span></a><span>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Here’s the final report:</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span></span><a href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/raa/ppsai-final-07dec15-en.pdf" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-GB">https://gnso.icann.org/en/<wbr>issues/raa/ppsai-final-<wbr>07dec15-en.pdf</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">The relevant section is from page 39 onwards and again from page 55
</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Michele</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">--</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Mr Michele Neylon</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Blacknight Solutions</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Hosting, Colocation & Domains</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US">https://www.blacknight.com/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0563c1">https://blacknight.blog/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0563c1">https://ceo.hosting/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">------------------------------<wbr>-</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b></span><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">John Bambenek <</span></span><a href="mailto:jcb@bambenekconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">jcb@bambenekconsulting.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday 11 March 2018 at 14:31<br>
<b>To: </b>Michele Neylon <</span></span><a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">michele@blacknight.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Volker Greimann <</span></span><a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">>,
sivasubramanian muthusamy <</span></span><a href="mailto:6.internet@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">6.internet@gmail.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">>,
RDS WG <</span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>For those not present, can you summarize or at least point to a document we can read? Stating that something was discussed somewhere
gives me little to go on as to what information you’d like me to know. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div id="m_-4299282009898693044m_310501411992832926AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>--
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>John Bambenek<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span><br>
On Mar 11, 2018, at 13:14, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <</span><a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank"><span>michele@blacknight.com</span><span></span></a><span>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">This issue was discussed in depth during the PPSAI (proxy privacy) PDP.
</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">--</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Mr Michele Neylon</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Blacknight Solutions</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Hosting, Colocation & Domains</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US">https://www.blacknight.com/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0563c1">https://blacknight.blog/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span></span><a href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank"><span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0563c1">https://ceo.hosting/</span></span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">------------------------------<wbr>-</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<span><span lang="EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-GB">Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b></span><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">gnso-rds-pdp-wg <</span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">>
on behalf of Volker Greimann <</span></span><a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday 11 March 2018 at 11:24<br>
<b>To: </b>sivasubramanian muthusamy <</span></span><a href="mailto:6.internet@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">6.internet@gmail.com</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Cc: </b>RDS WG <</span></span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a name="m_-4299282009898693044_m_310501411992832926__MailOriginalBody">Please provide a workable, reasonable method of identifying the domain names used in
commercial manner amongst the existing hundreds of million registered domains. Please also identify how this determination can be updated automatically once the use of a domain name changes.
</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The fact is that commercial use is content. ICANN does not deal with content except for very small and specific areas. ICANN and registrars
have no relationship with the content that is published under a domain name. We certainly have no control over specific uses. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>These details belong on the websites, as is provided in the laws in Europe and other jurisdictions. There is no need to duplicate this
in whois.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Volker<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>On 9. Mar 2018, at 07:49, sivasubramanian muthusamy <</span><a href="mailto:6.internet@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>6.internet@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Private persons (including private persons in a public career or a career of public exposure) need privacy. Why is this notion extended
to protect online commercial entities of varying ethical standards? Does </span><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Yourairlinereservations.<wbr>onlinecommerce</span> have a right to privacy of its Registrant
data? <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Their customers don't look for contact information from RDS, but in the entity's commercial
web site, but the information is not there. Many online entities </span>operate from behind layers of veil that separate them from customers and enable them to carry on their commercial activity with minimal or non-existent accountability. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Yourairlinereservations.<wbr>onlinecommerce sells millions of air tickets but does not seem
to have a building somewhere, and/or does not have an employee with a name. Yourairlinereservations.<wbr>onlinecommerce takes your money, takes your information without disclosing any of its own, and does not have a phone number or answer email messages (</span></span><span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"ABeeZee",serif;color:#222222;background:white">operates
through call centers, answers email messages by templates) </span></span><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">when you are stranded Midway with a ticket that doesn't work. Yourcasino takes your credit card
number, yourpharmacy takes your money and medical data, yourholiday owns your passport, and all these entities don't have an email address, phone number or a building with a person. </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Could we do away with this notion of (Registrant)data privacy where it concerns an online entity that carries out commercial monetary
transactions online? That would require us to discriminate between private persons and e-commerce entities, which would be a complex process - agreed. Nevertheless, could we think about this?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Sivasubramanian M<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
</span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span><span></span></a><span><br>
</span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank"><span>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">-- <br>
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<br>
<br>
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br>
<br>
Volker A. Greimann<br>
- Rechtsabteilung -<br>
<br>
Key-Systems GmbH<br>
<a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D%0A66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g">Im Oberen Werk 1</a><br>
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<br>
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- legal department -<br>
<br>
Key-Systems GmbH<br>
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