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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Can you provide us with some source citations for your assertion that the vast majority of domains transferred in a UDRP were subsequently allowed to expire? In our experience,
at least working on behalf of our clients, we almost never allow recovered domains to expire; instead they are transferred into the client’s overall domain name portfolio and held either for future active use or to maintain defensive protection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Brian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Brian J. Winterfeldt</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Principal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Winterfeldt IP Group<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://12/1"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;text-decoration:none">1200 17</span></a><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://12/1"><sup><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;text-decoration:none">th</span></sup></a><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://12/1"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;text-decoration:none"> St
NW</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">,
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://12/1"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;text-decoration:none">Ste 501</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://12/1"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">Washington, DC 20036</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="mailto:brian@winterfeldt.law">brian@winterfeldt.law</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">+1 202 903 4422</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Gnso-rpm-protection [mailto:gnso-rpm-protection-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Keating<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 8, 2018 2:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tushnet, Rebecca <rtushnet@law.harvard.edu><br>
<b>Cc:</b> gnso-rpm-protection@icann.org; Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-rpm-protection] [gnso-rpm-wg] Food for Thought: DMCA procedure at YouTube contrast with URS/UDRP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rebecca<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Not changing my opposition but facts are always a good thing. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pls make sure that the registrant has remained the same. You should also acquire a screenshot from
<a href="http://screenshots.com">screenshots.com</a> (free). <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Interestingly a few years ago it was found that the vast majority of domains transferred in a UDRP were subsequently allowed to expire by the complainant. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul Keating, Esq.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 8, 2018, at 8:48 PM, Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">My RA is presently coding all decided cases and will look at whether the domains are still active and registrant identity, if any. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rebecca Tushnet<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my phone. Apologies for terseness/typos. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 8, 2018, at 12:07 PM, claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Paul, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don't have the exact numbers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anecdotally, it appears a non-trivial portion of the suspended domains are being renewed by the losing registrant; see this blog article:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__domainnamewire.com_2016_11_18_strange-2Dthing-2Dhappening-2Ddomain-2Dnames-2Dsuspended-2Durs_&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=wwBGTHuqzACAi0540c88LR0K2k-RR0L30sLtDv7zO38&e=">https://domainnamewire.com/2016/11/18/strange-thing-happening-domain-names-suspended-urs/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">From the domains I've researched, a much smaller subset are being put back into use by redelegating the Name Servers. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I previously sent around reference to a domain that was suspended, and the registrant took back control and the domain is being offered for sale.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Claudio<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Has there ever been an instance where someone has made a nuisance of themselves by re-registering and abusing names that they have had suspended under a URS determination?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 3:26 PM, claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">George, all, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for this note.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just for clarification on the last point, as I understand the current remedies available under the URS does not include cancellation of the domain.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As a result, upon expiry the suspended domain can be renewed and used (including for abusive purposes) by the losing registrant of the URS decision.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To address this issue we can consider adding cancellation as a remedy (or otherwise modifying the URS) to minimize the need for repeated, serial enforcement against previously suspended domains.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Claudio<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 8:09 AM, George Kirikos <<a href="mailto:icann@leap.com" target="_blank">icann@leap.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Paul,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that they are different. Just<br>
pointing out that there are other systems out there that don't have<br>
that role reversal feature.<br>
<br>
Also, I believe some folks had mused about the possibility of a single<br>
DRP that integrated the URS and UDRP. The issue of creation of a<br>
"Notice of Dispute", that preceded the actual dispute, also has<br>
arisen. If such a system also handled the high number of defaults<br>
differently than today, then one result might be a much lower cost<br>
procedure in the case of defaults (i.e. it could be very lightweight<br>
like the YouTube procedure), and then reference to the courts for the<br>
disputes when both sides show up and are heavily contesting the<br>
matter.<br>
<br>
In terms of integration, one way to look at the URS is that it's very<br>
similar to a UDRP where the Complainant (TM holder) asks only for<br>
cancellation, albeit that the URS cancellation happens with a delay<br>
(under the UDRP, the cancellation would happen almost immediately,<br>
after allowing for the appeal to the courts)<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
George Kirikos<br>
<a href="tel:416-588-0269" target="_blank">416-588-0269</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.leap.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=bZgUqdZsWJpxn2JYP9hWkC_z7SdwF8iumg-TacpP0K0&e=" target="_blank">http://www.leap.com/</a><br>
<br>
On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:30 AM, Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:Paul@law.es" target="_blank">Paul@law.es</a>> wrote:<br>
> George,<br>
><br>
> I know that a response has already been posted but I wanted to add my<br>
> quick thoughts.<br>
><br>
> I agree that the DMCA and the UDRP/URS are not identical. In fact the<br>
> roles remain reversed throughout the UDRP/URS process. The DMCA merely<br>
> provides a notice, take-down followed by the opportunity to revive the<br>
> posting. Once reposting occurs the issue remains as it was before the<br>
> notice - the copyright owner must proceed with litigation. The UDRP/URS<br>
> however, results in the domain being transferred/suspended or not. In the<br>
> case of transfer, it is the registrant that must file. In the case the<br>
> complaint is denied then the trademark owner has that burden (like the<br>
> copyright owner in the DMCA example).<br>
><br>
> PRK<br>
><br>
> On 1/6/18, 12:23 AM, "gnso-rpm-wg on behalf of George Kirikos"<br>
> <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> on behalf of
<a href="mailto:icann@leap.com" target="_blank">icann@leap.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>>Hi folks,<br>
>><br>
>>There was an interesting article published today about a copyright<br>
>>dispute involving "white noise" videos on YouTube:<br>
>><br>
>><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gizmodo.com_man-2Ds-2Dyoutube-2Dvideo-2Dof-2Dwhite-2Dnoise-2Dhit-2Dwith-2Dfive-2Dcopyr&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=yI8IlcPvPIlDqrdRWh-iZZdz6lDpcXPUJPG2ttherGc&e=" target="_blank">https://gizmodo.com/man-s-youtube-video-of-white-noise-hit-with-five-copyr</a><br>
>>i-1821804093<br>
>><br>
>>which linked to the dispute procedure that YouTube follows:<br>
>><br>
>><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.google.com_youtube_answer_2797454&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=IMiR-5Ud9RFHo5-f7FCECVgR6eJ2Be6XwMi8WswYyd0&e=" target="_blank">https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797454</a><br>
>><br>
>>Going through the various links, it was very interesting that they<br>
>>even have a "Copyright School", see:<br>
>><br>
>><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.google.com_youtube_answer_2814000&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=qXp5rTBiTX-MOwOADnOBiZmaqytGHEe67QEWFZYG4T8&e=" target="_blank">https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2814000</a><br>
>><br>
>>(expand the "How to resolve a copyright strike" to see the link to<br>
>>it), which is quite interesting, given how often the education aspect<br>
>>for registrants has come up in our PDP's work.<br>
>><br>
>>Also of interest is the section on "Counter Notification Basics":<br>
>><br>
>><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.google.com_youtube_answer_2807684&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=qS_-DaNj3pFGWKD1Pkw_-smTgstSPSBiLWhqYJhoStY&e=" target="_blank">https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2807684</a><br>
>><br>
>>where importantly it says:<br>
>><br>
>>"After we process your counter notification by forwarding it to the<br>
>>claimant, the claimant has 10 business days to provide us with<br>
>>evidence that they have initiated a court action to keep the content<br>
>>down."<br>
>><br>
>>and it's the content creator who posts the relevant jurisdiction:<br>
>><br>
>><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.google.com_youtube_answer_6005919&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=sV1rBCsLFhkLclqA4Kx0Sw9NVS6tWys0L94WNBadQJk&e=" target="_blank">https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6005919</a><br>
>><br>
>>""I consent to the jurisdiction of the Federal District Court for the<br>
>>district in which my address is located, or if my address is outside<br>
>>of the United States, the judicial district in which YouTube is<br>
>>located, and will accept service of process from the claimant."<br>
>><br>
>>As noted in prior threads, various issues arise under the URS (and<br>
>>UDRP) when the natural role of plaintiffs vs. defendants (had the<br>
>>URS/UDRP not existed) gets reversed (e.g. the Yoyo.email UK "cause of<br>
>>action issue", as well as IGO and other groups' claimed "sovereign<br>
>>immunity").<br>
>><br>
>>With the dispute resolution procedure followed by YouTube, instead the<br>
>>onus is on the copyright owner (the "claimant") to file the lawsuit,<br>
>>in the same natural way that would exist had that dispute resolution<br>
>>procedure not existed. Thus, none of the issues due to reversal of<br>
>>plaintiff/defendant arise.<br>
>><br>
>>I thought it would be of interest, especially as it also might also<br>
>>give insights as to how "defaults" are handled.<br>
>><br>
>>Food for thought.<br>
>><br>
>>Sincerely,<br>
>><br>
>>George Kirikos<br>
>><a href="tel:416-588-0269" target="_blank">416-588-0269</a><br>
>><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.leap.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=bZgUqdZsWJpxn2JYP9hWkC_z7SdwF8iumg-TacpP0K0&e=" target="_blank">http://www.leap.com/</a><br>
>>_______________________________________________<br>
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