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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Please find the attendance, MP3 recording and Adobe Connect chat below for the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) TMCH Sub Team call held on Friday, 02 September 2016 at 15:00 UTC. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">MP3:</span></b><a href="https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-tmch-02sep16-en.mp3
" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-tmch-02sep16-en.mp3
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</a><a href="http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-tmch-05aug16-en.mp3" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"> </a></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the Sub Team wiki page: </span><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/uhWsAw" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">https://community.icann.org/x/uhWsAw</a></p>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Attendees</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">RPM
TMCH Sub Team:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Edward Morris</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Jeff Neuman</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Kathy Kleiman</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Kristine Dorrain</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: white;"><font face="Calibri">Kurt Pritz </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: white;"><font face="Calibri">Philip Corwin</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Robin Gross</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Sarah Clayton</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Scott R. Austin</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Susan Payne</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Vaibhav Aggarwal</p>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On audio only:</span></b></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> None </span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Apologies:</span></b></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; background-color: white;"><o:p>None </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; background-color: white;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">ICANN staff:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Mary Wong<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Antonietta Mangiacotti<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">David Tait</span></p>
<p style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Michelle DeSmyter <font size="3"><o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Mailing list archives: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-tmch/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-tmch/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Main RPM Wiki page: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/rhiOAw" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">https://community.icann.org/x/rhiOAw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Sub Team Wiki page: </span><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/uhWsAw" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">https://community.icann.org/x/uhWsAw</a></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Michelle DeSmyter <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><u><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Adobe Connect chat </span></u></b><b><u><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">transcript for 02 September 2016:</span></u></b></p>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Michelle DeSmyter:Dear All, Welcome to the Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) - TMCH sub team call on Friday, 02 September 2016 at 15:00 UTC.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:Hi all - the PDF version doesn't seem to include the comments, including from Kurt - so it may be helpful if you also have the Word version at hand/</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Payne:sorry, I have lost audio...</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> David Tait:Susan we can arrange a dial out if that would help?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Philip Corwin:Hello all</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:Hi</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Philip Corwin:Is anyone speaking, because all I have on my phone line is silence?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:No, Susan was about to and she lost audio</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Philip Corwin:OK thx</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Payne:i think I'm back :)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:That's why the data is only up to May 2015, which is when the RPM Paper was done.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> David Tait: Link: <a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/cct-metrics-rpm-2016-06-27-en#2.8">https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/cct-metrics-rpm-2016-06-27-en#2.8</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Susan, that's something staff was wondering too - and we are thinking that it would be helpful for the Sub Team to go back to the Charter questions, after reviewing the questions we have now, to see what
else we might need.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Payne:@Mary - yes that's what we thought</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:Let me clarify: we are not trying to answer the charter questions. We are using them as an OUTLINE for our question creation process.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Kristine, yes that was the staff understanding as well.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:So we don't miss anything. Otherwise I feel like our question-asking is feeling undirected.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jeff Neuman:@kathy - I agree with Kristine. The best way to determine which data we should be seeking is to go back to the charter to see what questions we (the full group) will need to answer</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:It's basically a gap-filling exercise</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:Agree it is not for this Sub Team to answer the Charter questions; we had thought it had been agreed that the Sub Team could use the Charter questions as a starting point to develop data-related questions
that would aid the WG in answering the Charter questions.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:FYI - the Charter questions are basically a list of all the community questions that were raised in prior public comments and community consultations, including to the Issue Report and the RPM Staff Paper.
However, as Kathy notes, they are not strictly listed as coming from a particular SG or C.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:So, Susan and I will share our outline next week.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Philip Corwin:Concur that role of subteam is to gather data that will assist full WG in addressing community questions. Of course it can refer to those questions in determining what data to seek.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Edward Morris 2:Thx. Kathy. This is a huge issue.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kurt Pritz:I think we can let Deloitte and IBM sort out the TMCH provider questions</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jeff Neuman:That sounds a little subjective to me</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jeff Neuman:and not a data exercize</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jeff Neuman:How do we know that legitimate users are not proceeding</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:Of all, yes</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jeff Neuman:The full WG has not established that legitimate registrations did not proceed and therefore we cannot ask questions with that assumption baked in</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:Maybe at most we can say is that legitimate registrants form part of that 94% but we do not know what the actual rate is.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Scott R. Austin:@Susan I read the same assumption into the question and agree it should be based on evidence. And isnt that the goal of the notice if those put off were potential infringers?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:One problem with the use of "legitimate" is that the Claims Notice is generated because there is a mark in the TMCH. "Legitimacy" at that point goes to potential non-infringing uses (because there
is no actual use yet). I think it would be hard to determine intent at the time of registration by simply looking at the domain name.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kathy:What I am striving for probably a "kinder, gentler" TM Claims Notice.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kathy:Is there a better way to phrase what we are trying to say... </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kathy:yes </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> David Tait:yes</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Robin Gross:I agree with Phil. We should really try to get some hard data on legitimate registrations that were thwarted.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:How do we know what was a legitimate potential registration?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Robin Gross:Specific facts could give us a clue.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Edward Morris 2:Then we can not make an assumption that any of those who turned away were potential cybersquatters. Assumptions go both ways.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:But what are the specific facts? We know how many Claims Notice in total were issued, and how many registrations then followed, but that's it.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> David Tait:can do</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:Note that we have listed as an Action Item following up with Brett.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kathy:yes</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:yes, we can hear you</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Robin Gross:That's the data we want.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Robin, understood - but staff just can't figure out how we can get it. Who says what is and what is not a legitimate potential registrant?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Robin Gross:I wasn't proposing staff decide what is legitimate. The group should look at the data and make some analysis.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jeff Neuman:If we ask the question, then lets ask why did cybersquatter proceed with registrations despite receiving the notice</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Robin, right - but what data?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Philip Corwin:Instead of "legitimate", how about "non-infringing intent"?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Edward Morris 2:+1 Phil</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Phil, doesn't that raise the same question? How can anyone tell which potential registration that didn't go through has non infringing intent?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jeff Neuman:Then lets ask the opposite sire of the coin</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jeff Neuman:If some people got scared away, some did not. Lets find out why some infringers were not scared away</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:I think "intent" is stiil subjective.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Robin Gross:Perhaps some of the would-be registrants in Brett's data could provide some clarification about their intentions.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Payne:All, apologies for having to go. I will catch up on the recording</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kathy:Bye Susan!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> David Tait:Thanks Susan</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Scott R. Austin:Intent in this case will always be circumstantial and that an attempt to register a registered mark as a domain is a coin toss on aware or unaware of the mark, an innocent who just picked the string
by chance or a serial cybersquatter playing the lottery of enforcement</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> David Tait:Yes</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kathy:I don't understand Jeff's question and suggest we revise.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:Got it, Jeff - sorry about that.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kathy:Now I understand. Tx and good rephrasing</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Philip Corwin:These questions are asking for opinions. I'm not against that, but we should ask for any data they have that backs up their opinions.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kathy:Good point.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:yes, Phil. I agree. We need to be explicit about that.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Michelle DeSmyter:Welcome Vaibhav!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Vaibhav Aggarwal:hey guys I know I missed but still wanted to get on. just parked</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:No obejctions</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Vaibhav Aggarwal:hey Michelle</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Philip Corwin:My subjective opinion is that sophisticated cybersquatters don't care about the claims notice because they have probably furnished false WHOIS data and have no intention of responding to a UDRP or
URS, while amateur or inadvertent cybersquatters are deterred by it.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:Personal opinion: you're probably right. The hard part is crafting the questions to gain the right data to prove/disprove that....</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Philip Corwin:Thx--and that was my personal opinion, co-chair hat off</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kathy:Good point, Susan!!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kristine Dorrain:Thanks everyone! </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Robin Gross:Thanks, bye.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Vaibhav Aggarwal:thnx and a great weekend too</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Vaibhav Aggarwal:yippee</div>
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