[gnso-rpm-wg] Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group 13 July 2016
Terri Agnew
terri.agnew at icann.org
Wed Jul 13 18:53:26 UTC 2016
Dear All,
Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group call held on Wednesday, 13 July 2016 at 17:00 UTC.
MP3: <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-08jun16-en.mp3> http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-13jul16-en.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXzI03ZqpsshSzdNKA1Z4WxEp9wS0juni1GWKVVX4F9RLIBoBdBLSQ-3D-3D_nEX-2FaOijqgcJlSz5SkmueJu3tRbmaDiuX89gT35tStEeSHP9whdoceObpMxYsFLQddiMZpQjIv8dk6BsBGSJXH7VWN4SGLCJgbGKCk6E-2FTErjF4OKNQt65Dk9NF54IJ9kQpmDNySj7bbNz9G4dXi5BgbCZotTx8KNfyeB0z00f8KsMfETeTNKd7vy2kKI7tttQUIwid4NAhxXgT3nZYwmlHtIoe6-2BVrOrOH1DV3nPeJOUyBvuRgFUwiamfJ-2Bi-2FpBxA2g74ymL9-2BwFH-2B8wlVK5H-2B05VQheBN8gJJZKgaW8geAPYk63LWDuq0sxZ-2BS7c2vq03knM3Bhe0TjlSNuBJFOy9HBhQW-2FBIFBiUnbMU2jqWH4Kxrw6P3VofMHApzGVo67u46Qa5EAgc6qNLXh4-2B2rmUmptjDm-2BPAIJ3-2Bz67-2BldgH4CwxGkQAs-2BtE7JxUzBFnZPMMkh6eLA0KFPAgDpOVQAZpfbpFwGfpU5bg5ArQzkDdQLMMFf2Jth8P3xDdDAO2>
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov>
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/
Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/rhiOAw
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Terri Agnew
-------------------------------
Adobe Connect chat transcript for 13 July 2016:
Terri Agnew:Welcome to the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group call held on Wednesday, 13 July 2016 at 17:00 UTC
Terri Agnew:members wiki page with SOI's: https://community.icann.org/x/3iWAAw
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello Everyone
Mary Wong:Hi Maxim, everyone.
George Kirikos:Hi folks.
Mary Wong:Hi George
George Kirikos:Hi Mary. How are you today?
Mary Wong:Hey George, very well, thanks - just got off a planning call with Phil and Petter for our OTHER Working Group meeting tomorrow :)
Mary Wong:Hope you're well, and everyone else too!
George Kirikos:Are we going to have calls during the Olympics??!!??
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it is not a war ... so we don't have to stop :)
Mary Wong:@George, that's the plan :) :)
George Kirikos:Ahhh, ok. :) I'll have to set the PVR if there's anything good during our calls.
Martin Silva Valent:hello everyone!
George Kirikos:Welcome Martin.
Yuri Chumak:hello
George Kirikos:Welcome, Yuri.
catherine.douglas:Terri - not sure how long I can remain on the call, but will do best to remain as long as possible.
George Kirikos:We're now up to 240 participants in the PDP https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=58729950 (140 members, 100 observers).
Terri Agnew:thank you for this information Catherine
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):do we know who WIPO is this time?
Mary Wong:@George, we're still trailing the Next-Generation Registration Directory Service to Replace WHOIS PDP group (by just a little) :)
George Kirikos:@Mary: They had a head start. :-) In 2018, when we get to the UDRP, I think we'll see our group get even larger.
Mary Wong:@Maxim, Brian Beckham from WIPO is signed up as a member of this Working Group.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):tanks
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*thanks
George Kirikos:*6 will mute, I think.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Hi all. I'm in Adobe, but finishing another call and will join audio in a few minutes.
Terri Agnew:Correct, on audio *6 to mute or unmute
Marina Lewis:Hi everyone
WIPO:Thanks Mary - FYI the reason I sign in as "WIPO" is because I am joined by other colleagues here in my office.
Laurie Anderson:Hi all, sorry to be tardy, another meeting went long.
Kathy Kleiman:Hi Brian, Might we ask who is joining you at WIPO? Great to know everyone participating...
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:'Evening everyone.
Mary Wong:FYI these slides are a summary of the full Provider responese, all of which have been posted to the Working Group wiki.
George Kirikos:The others at WIPO might want to add a "SOI", if they've not already done so.
Mona:I'm on Adobe and will cut the call out.
Mona:thanks for the call out Adobe is ok
Terri Agnew:thanks for this information Mona, will cancel dial out with the op
Caroline Chicoine:On Question 8, Forum responded wondering whetehr ICANN's compliance program is where people gowith issues rather than using PDDRP and wondering whether we have asked ICANN compliance group whether any complaints they have received since new gtld launch relate to something that could have been brought under PDDRP. Might be good to know if we have not done yet.
George Kirikos:I'm surprised by WIPO's answer, given that their website mentions mediation, see: http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/mediation/
Mary Wong:@Caroline, thanks - Compliance staff attended our Helsinki WG meeting but we have not specifically followed up with them on this point. We can certainly do so.
Laurie Anderson:Is anyone having an issue with the audio? Mine keeps cutting out.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:I'm on the Adobe audio and I'm hearing fine except the feedback issues.
Terri Agnew:@Laurie, my AC audio is solid, please let me know if a dial out is needed
Ivett Paulovics:Mediation is recommended by the applicant guidebook as dispute resolution method
Kathy Kleiman:@Caroline: I had listed the same question. Perhaps we should invite them for the meeting?
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:George: All the providers offer stand-alone mediation services. I think the question is regarding the benefit of adding it to the PDDRP.
Laurie Anderson:Terri, thank you. I disconnected my VPN so working better now.
Laurie Anderson:Easier to understand when you hear all the words :)
George Kirikos:Here's a link to ICANN Compliance reports: https://www.icann.org/compliance/notices (includes both registrar & registry compliance)
Ivett Paulovics:Page 330 Applicant Guidebook 21.2: The parties are encouraged, but not required to participate in informal negotiations and/or mediation at any time throughout the dispute resolution process but the conduct of any such settlement negotiation is not, standing alone, a reason to suspend any deadline under the proceedings.
J. Scott Evans:I still think we need to take a look at the burdne of proof issue.
J. Scott Evans:All 3 providers pointed to that as an issue.
Mary Wong:@J Scott we can add that as an item to the list to be compiled when we get to the next agenda item.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:I still like the idea of some straw proposals as I think J Scott mentioned in Helsinki. I'd love to come up with a few use cases and get some outside counsel input and perhaps even a response from ICANN on what they would do in that situation if the complainant elected to go directly to ICANN.
Mona:Recent surveys indicate that mediation settlement rates for intellectual property disputes are as high as 70%. Mediation is a cost-effective, efficient way to resolve trademark disputes.INTA endorses mediation as an effective way to resolve trademark disputes.
Petter Rindforth:I think we already have a clear answer to question 5: Obviously Not
Mona:this is taken from an overview by INTA
Kathy Kleiman:@Laurie: I am hearing moments of silence online...
George Kirikos:I'm on the phone, and the sound is good, Kathy.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):too high price is a questionabe threshold ... who sets it?
Laurie Anderson:@Kathy, I shut down my VPN and that fixed it for me.
Kathy Kleiman:@Laurie - tx!
Greg Shatan:You're welcome, Phil...
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:If we end up going down the route of recommending a "class complaint" under PDDRP, I think great care needs to be taken. The resources available to multiple joined brand owners could cripple a small registry. We willl want to make sure the RySG is well-represented in that discussion, as the potential respondents.
Beth Allegretti:Thanks Susan. We may want to see about adding "class action" language to the PDDRP. It would be difficult for a single brand to show a pattern of bad action, much easier for a group of brands.
susan payne:@Kristine, that is a good point. Maybe "class complaint" isn't the right term. But it seems to me highly unlikley that a single brand owner alone would have evidence of the kind of behaviour intended to be addressed by the PDDRP
Greg Shatan:There needs to be a way to either have a class action, consolidate cases and/or have a joint action. Otherwise this is close to being a sham. What good is a forum for complaints, if there's no one to bring an action?
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Should we ask RySG ?
Petter Rindforth:Top-Level Dispute (PDDRP 6.1):"A complainant must assert and prove, by clear and convincing evidence, that the registry operator's affirmative conduct in its operation or use of its gTLD string that is identical or confusingly similar to the complainant's mark, causes or materially contributes to the gTLD doing one of the following: (a) taking unfair advantage of the distinctive character or the reputation of the complainant's mark; or (b) impairing the distinctive character or the reputation of the complainant's mark; or (c) creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark. An example of infringement at the top-level is where a TLD string is identical to a trademark and then the registry operator holds itself out as the beneficiary of the mark."
Ivett Paulovics:Susan you intend for class complaint consolidation?
George Kirikos:I think most registries (and/or complainants) would respond by exercising their rights under Section 22, i.e. go to court, rather than use this procedure.
George Kirikos:i.e. if court is available, and is ultimately where this would end up, why would a party logically prefer this procedure over the courts?
Greg Shatan:Kristine, let's not forget that brand owners come in all sizes too.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Initially, it was a way to get ICANN compliance to act. After RegisterFly and Lead Networks, it got better.
Greg Shatan:A PDDRP at the top level is more likely to be brought by a single brandowner. A PDDRP relating to problems at the second level is where the "where's the complainant" problem really arises.
Ivett Paulovics:@George maybe because it is cost-effective and swift in comparison to the court
George Kirikos:Here's a link to the policy, in case folks aren't reading it: https://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb/pddrp-04jun12-en.pdf
WIPO:While the PDDRP uses the term "Complainant", it also implies that a consolidated (or "class") complaint would be permitted (see 13.3 "each side of the dispute if a matter has been consolidated").
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:+1 J Scott
susan payne:@ Petter - I was thinking of the 2nd level rather than the top level: "(a) there is a substantial pattern or practice of specific bad faith intent by theregistry operator to profit from the sale of trademark infringing domain names; "
Mary Wong:Staff will follow up with our Compliance colleagues.
J. Scott Evans:I think we should, obviously.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Good Idea- Lets do this
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Yes, please send a homework reminder. :)
Mary Wong:@J Scott, @Kristine, @Phil, will do.
WIPO:To the extent relevant in the PDDRP context, UDRP panels have also described conditions under which a consolidation would be appropriate in the UDRP context; see WIPO Overview 2.0 at 4.16: http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/overview2.0/#416.
J. Scott Evans:@Mary. Thanks.
Petter Rindforth:@Susan - I agree: On the second level, it is not sufficient to show that the registry operator is on notice of possible trademark infringement through registrations in the gTLD. An example of infringement at this level is where a registry operator has a pattern or practice of actively and systematically encouraging registrants to register second level domain names and to take unfair advantage of the trademark to the extent and degree that bad faith is apparent. Another example of infringement is where a registry operator has a pattern or practice of acting as the registrant or beneficial user of infringing registrations, to monetize and profit in bad faith.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Phil, I suggest going a step furhter with compliance and presenting them with use cases or situations. to see if there is any situation that ICANN compliance would NOT deal with directly and push to the PDDRP.
Caroline Chicoine:My perpesctive on this changes depending on whetehr the PDDRP is the only mechanism or is it the mechanism of last resort (i.e., compliance does in fact have mechanisms to deal with issues that do not necessarily rise to the level of bringing of a PDDRP action).
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:YEs
George Kirikos:Sound is very low?
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Kristine your Audio is not clear and Audible
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Oh, I'm sorry...on a different headset today.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Summary: Hypotheticals to ICANN will help the group determine which areas area being adequately dealt with by ICANN and where there might still be gaps that the PDDRP could be useful to solve. We want to target any PDDRP updates to those areas of actual usefullness.
catherine.douglas:so sorry, but must bow out.
Renee Reuter:I need to leave the call. Sorry.
Robin Gross:I was wondering if TM-PDDRP claims should be limited in time until after General Availability/public launch? Is there really enough evidence of a Registry's intent before/during Sunrise? Thanks.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:We should support this - simultaneously change a little and make it suitable to the new work environment
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:ICANN 57 - Yippeeee
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Group-My Guests :-)
Mary Wong:@Phil, all - as a proposed F2F meeting will likely take place during Day 1 of the ICANN57 meeting, no additional funding is available for this meeting.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:There are Direct Flihts to Hyderabad so Logistics are not a Nightmare - If you have any questions, please feel free to write to me for clarifications : va at bladebrains.com<mailto:va at bladebrains.com> | va at thevaibhav.com<mailto:va at thevaibhav.com>
Mona:I'm going too
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL::-)
George Kirikos:I think when groups are this large, F2F meetings are going to be less effective.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Yes The Logest in ICANN for a While
Susan Kawaguchi:The RDS is also considering having a face to face meeting in Hyderabad
George Kirikos:Since, only 1 person speaks at a time, if you have 100 ppl there, it just means 99 ppl are listening while that 1 person speaks....
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):roll a dice for a mic time?
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:November is the Best time to Visit India as its winters with the weather encouraging you to experience life while on business mates
Ivett Paulovics:I'm probably not going to Hyderabad. To Copenhagen yes.
George Kirikos:Groups above 7 or 8 ppl are hard to manage F2F.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:George, I thought the Helsinki F2F WG meeting was pretty full and still effective..
Greg Shatan:There are no direct flights to Hyderabad from New York (so I assume none from the US). One needs to leave the US on November 1 to arrive November 3, which is too late.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:F2F will be great as this will help speed up
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Shud ve do a Interim Doodle
Greg Shatan:Agree with Kristine, larger F2Fs have been quite useful.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:I can Shre information about travelling here if anyone wants
J. Scott Evans:I have to excuse myself for another call. Thanks Phil, Kathy and WG members.
George Kirikos:Bye everyone.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Thanks all, I have to jump off.
Jay Chapman:Thanks, all!
Reg Levy - MMX:Thank you ,all
Salvador Camacho Hernandez 2:Thanks to all!
Mary Wong:Thank you everyone!
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Cheers -
Robin Gross:Thanks Phil and all, bye!
Darcy Southwell:Thanks, all.
Laurie Anderson:thanks everyone!
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all
Jonathan Frost:Thanks Phil, Kathy, and all
Ivett Paulovics:thanks
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Ciao
Phil Marano (Mayer Brown):Bye all
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