[gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today
Paul McGrady
policy at paulmcgrady.com
Sat Apr 8 22:15:51 UTC 2017
+1 Colin. Well said.
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org]
On Behalf Of trachtenbergm at gtlaw.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 1:16 PM
To: christhomas at parkerpoe.com; john.mcelwaine at nelsonmullins.com;
colin at PartridgePartnersPC.com; icann at leap.com; gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working
Group call held earlier today
+1
Best regards,
Marc H. Trachtenberg
Shareholder
Greenberg Traurig, LLP | 77 West Wacker Drive | Suite 3100 | Chicago, IL
60601 Tel 312.456.1020 Mobile 773.677.3305 trachtenbergm at gtlaw.com |
www.gtlaw.com
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org]
On Behalf Of Thomas, Christopher M.
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 12:48 PM
To: 'John McElwaine'; Colin O'Brien; 'George Kirikos'; gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working
Group call held earlier today
+1, agree with Colin
_______________________________
Christopher Thomas
Partner
Parker Poe
PNC Plaza | 301 Fayetteville Street | Suite 1400 | Raleigh, NC 27601
Office: 919.835.4641 | Fax: 919.834.4564
Visit our website at
www.parkerpoe.com
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org]
On Behalf Of John McElwaine
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 1:46 PM
To: Colin O'Brien; 'George Kirikos'; gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working
Group call held earlier today
+1 Colin Well said.
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org]
On Behalf Of Colin O'Brien
Sent: Friday, April 7, 2017 1:39 PM
To: 'George Kirikos' <icann at leap.com>; gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working
Group call held earlier today
Looking at the Working Group Charter the Mission Scope of this working
group is to:
"This PDP Working Group is being chartered to conduct a review of all RPMs
in all gTLDs in two phases: Phase One will focus on a review of all the RPMs
that were developed for the New gTLD Program, and Phase Two will focus on a
review of the UDRP. , by the completion of its work, the Working Group will
be expected to have also considered the overarching issue as to whether or
not all the RPMs collectively fulfill the purposes for which they were
created, or whether additional policy recommendations are needed, including
to clarify and unify the policy goals. At a minimum, in each Phase of this
PDP, the Working Group is expected to first assess the effectiveness of the
relevant RPM(s), for which the Working Group should seek the input of
experienced online dispute resolution providers and other subject matter
experts, as may be appropriate. The Working Group should also consider the
interplay between and complementary roles of each RPM in seeking to more
fully understand their
overall functioning and effectiveness"
Based on the terms of the charter the order in which things should be
discussed are:
1. Whether or not all the RPMs collectively fulfill the purposes for
which they were created;
2. Whether additional policy recommendations are needed;
3. Whether there should be a clarification and unification of policy
goals.
I agree with Jeff that many of the questions being re-asked have dealt with
extensively by ICANN in short they have been "asked and answered." It is
not the place for a handful of individuals to declare that everything should
be reviewed and they should be entitled to challenge past assumptions
allowing this to happen will result in a tyranny of few creating paralysis
in this working group. The end result of this paralysis will ensure no
tangible fixes are made to the RPM system in ICANN and everything remains in
status quo.
Colin Thomas Jefferson O'Brien
321 North Clark Street, Suite 720
Chicago, Illinois 60654
312-634-9503
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.partridge.partners_&
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m1c&m=mbrwCCecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=l7QVCXLw0FRl5By0KjnpFH4q
6L5nnKQ5dYF1QyMnd04&e=
-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org]
On Behalf Of George Kirikos
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 12:18 PM
To: gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working
Group call held earlier today
With all due respect, I fundamentally disagree with that position.
It's our *task* to review everything, challenge past assumptions, gather and
look at the hard data, and not simply pretend to review it and defer to
"precedent".
If it's all been said before, wrong policies would be permanent.
ICANN has repeatedly made major policy mistakes. Anyone suggesting they
haven't really hasn't been paying much attention.
Sincerely,
George Kirikos
416-588-0269
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.leap.com_&d=DwICAg&c
=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrw
CCecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=1Mbau_4OwTfSA4aEf7TjXpXfh_2LZM9_yC
4ZuPxCjso&e=
On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>
wrote:
> THIS IS IN MY PERSONAL CAPACITY AND NOT AS A WG CHAIR FOR THE SUBPRO
> PDP
>
> With all due respect to everyone, all of these types of issues have been
"asked and answered." We should not be revisiting issues that were
extensively debated from 1999-2001 and 2006-2012. There is a huge archive
of this information and just because we have new participants in this group
that were not around back then, unless there are changed circumstances which
necessitate a change in policy, I think this is beyond our scope.
>
> For example, see each of the following all before the 2012 round:
>
> - DNSO WG-B: Famous Trade - Marks (1999-2000):
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.icann.org
> _en_dnso_wgb-2Dreport-2D17apr00.htm&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&
> r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrwCCecYlAFcU-3MXt6XA
> czAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=hAo63KpxkKhQDAnv3rcAXUNlACoo-XHLvO2PTTXRiZc&e=
> ;
> - DNSO WG-B Position Papers (1999):
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.dnso.org_wgrou
> ps_wg-2Db_Archives_msg00505.html&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L
> 7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrwCCecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczA
> uZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=NZaLxm0Qhmr2jrXwoyl35RFr7kAKqWSw3l0KInIGosA&e=
> (includes positions from community)
> - DNSO WG-C: New gTLDs (1999-2000): See
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.dnso.org_wgrou
> ps_wg-2Dc_Arc00_msg02018.html&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB
> 7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrwCCecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAuZO
> xBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=TS-6p_gIE1XdzJfY8wRjDe7hyKxqOBBvZApcQQHEfCc&e=
> - Evaluation of Legal Policy Issues in new gTLDs
> (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__archive.icann.org
> _en_tlds_new-2Dgtld-2Deval-2D31aug04.pdf&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_O
> l9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrwCCecYlAFcU-3M
> Xt6XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=zkxRgJqaqx6-mq1qwW6VEEib8ME38YdfPVkKG3UDD
> HA&e= )
> - WIPO Report on New gTLDs (2005)
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wipo.int_amc_e
> n_domains_reports_newgtld-2Dip_&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7
> MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrwCCecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAu
> ZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=DIQZxxAPTH_k25KzLAh8ZcVJSAKK820yNWvv3byM5-I&e=
> - Protecting the Rights of Others Working Group (2006-2007):
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en
> _group-2Dactivities_inactive_2007_pro&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9w
> g&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrwCCecYlAFcU-3MXt6
> XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=xtpv9W2hTbFpDAYtlH9uBba3mo3nsBiyA6mHpHCLrJI&
> e=
> - Final IRT Report (2009):
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.icann.org
> _en_topics_new-2Dgtlds_irt-2Dfinal-2Dreport-2Dtradema&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mv
> bfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrw
> CCecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=QxU8weroyFt7E3gFI4xKPOfkBuax
> Pew_licnNU8sWu4&e=
> rk-protection-29may09-en.pdf
> - STI Final Report (2009):
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en
> _issues_sti_sti-2Dwt-2Drecommendations-2D11dec09-2Den&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mv
> bfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrw
> CCecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=Ir0BIspcw6Fbpe1-d-tNFr3IaTGx
> g59GTQXG2qlPr2A&e=
> .pdf
> - Trademark Clearinghouse (2010):
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.icann.org
> _en_topics_new-2Dgtlds_trademark-2Dclearinghouse-2D&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mvbf
> Y0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrwCC
> ecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=QMqHvPegGfz87VJpLF2_pSVquagtXJ
> Bay_u6bgdEKHg&e=
> clean-28may10-en.pdf
> - URS (2010):
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.icann.org
> _en_topics_new-2Dgtlds_draft-2Durs-2Dclean-2D28may10-2D&d=DwICAg&c=2s2
> mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mb
> rwCCecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=Fw0DWkeH6bMAdmi_h9rWFdN0KN
> u8J0NPbaEjWHgGGoo&e=
> en.pdf
> - Trademark Issues (2011):
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.icann.org
> _en_topics_new-2Dgtlds_trademark-2Dprotection-2Dcla&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mvbf
> Y0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrwCC
> ecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=wwMjC8vzaEIWIDl6eMRoBXgfJygrrY
> RkmUem4sBqRYk&e=
> ims-use-15apr11-en.pdf
> - Trademark Clearinghouse (2011):
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.icann.org
> _en_topics_new-2Dgtlds_trademark-2Dclearinghouse-2D&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mvbf
> Y0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrwCC
> ecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=QMqHvPegGfz87VJpLF2_pSVquagtXJ
> Bay_u6bgdEKHg&e=
> implementation-30may11-en.pdf
> - Board Briefing Paper on Rights of Others (2011):
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__archive.icann.org
> _en_topics_new-2Dgtlds_gac-2Dboard-2Dprotection-2Drig&d=DwICAg&c=2s2mv
> bfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=mbrw
> CCecYlAFcU-3MXt6XAczAuZOxBShwlOhI3lKYfU&s=94PW21uPJs6uTOxcr6W8HEbRQR5X
> KkEDz2Ts22Tljcw&e=
> hts-owners-21feb11-en.pdf
>
> I think we are well past the point of discussing whether Sunrise is
consistent with trademark law or whether it infringes free speech unless
actual and substantial evidence can be shown to override all of the
thousands of pages of materials that have come before. Hundreds of smart
people have debated these issues before including many of the people in this
very group. It is one of the reasons that precedent is so important. We
should not be redoing the work of the past unless there is new and
substantial evidence to do so.
>
> This would be part of the essence behind Neuman Rule #2.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeffrey J. Neuman
> Senior Vice President |Valideus USA | Com Laude USA
> 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600
> Mclean, VA 22102, United States
> E: jeff.neuman at valideus.com or jeff.neuman at comlaude.com
> T: +1.703.635.7514
> M: +1.202.549.5079
> @Jintlaw
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org
> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating
> Sent: Friday, April 7, 2017 3:32 AM
> To: Jon Nevett <jon at donuts.email>
> Cc: gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the
> Working Group call held earlier today
>
> Hello all. I have been following these threads with growing concerns. It
seems people are letting their anger show and I ask that the discussion be
rebooted. Email is a horrible communication system - even when polite
emails are often misconstrued.
>
> Seems to me that the issues all seem to center around the following:
>
> 1. Sunrise as inconsistent with freedom of expression
>
> 2. Sunrise is unfair because it provides a priority right to TMCH
registrants over all other potential registrants.
>
> Regarding #1 there is no doubt that the sunrise system infringes on speech
freedoms. The infringement is not avoided simply because The speaker has an
alternative channel; part of the freedom incorporates the communicative
aspects of being able to select the method of speech itself.
>
> There are indeed many enroachments upon freedom of speech. Some are
> permissible. Some are not. Whether a particular impact is permissible
> or appropriate requires a balance of interest. That balance includes
>
> the societal interests in restricting speech vs not.
>
> The speaker's interests
>
> Whether alternatives to the restrictions exist.
>
> Seems to me here that alternatives do exist which alone may not preclude
all possible trademark abuse but acting together may. These include the use
of the pre-registration TMCH notice (which I am told is extremely
effective), the UDRP, The URS, and of course litigation. There are also of
course economic forces wherein the registration price is placed outside of
the affordable range for an abuser. This issue is not limited to trademark
rights. It arises anytime there is a priority granted.
>
> I ask that we consider all of the above.
>
> 2. The priority right. In addition to the speech related issue above there
is the issue of priority based upon trademark rights.
>
> To determine if this is being abused or if the benefits granted are
> not otherwise justified we need data. L
>
>> On Apr 6, 2017, at 12:47 PM, Jon Nevett <jon at donuts.email> wrote:
>>
>> Contrary to George's fears, for example, it seems clear from the study
that Sunrise is not being used by trademark owners to monopolize generic
terms. Nor is there any empirical evidence that it has had any negative
effect on non-trademark owner registrants or applicants.
>
> I ask that Jon kindly provide the data. I have not seen any data that
would permit such a conclusion. This would require data as to:
>
> - the actual mark's in the TMCH,
> - the number of sunrise registrations undertaken based on a TMCH
registration,
> - the number of post-sunrise, pre-registration notices sent to
registrants, and
> - the number of registrations subsequently undertaken notwithstanding
the notice (from which we can determine the number of domain registrations
abandoned post notice.
>
> If we do this honestly then "camps" don't matter and insults and offensive
language can be avoided. We are tasked with making recommendations that will
benefit the entire space and we should strive to avoid words and decisions
that separate us from that goal.
>
> Paul Keating.
>
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